Friday, March 22, 2013

The Bizarre Religion of "Bootstraps" & "Pay Your Dues"‏

Singing rightful too-ra-laddie too-ra-lee
There is no one who can tell a lie like me
You can search until you tire, you won't find a bigger liar
I've been lying since the dawn of history —Irish Folk Song
One of the puzzling things about the Edumacation Scam-a-thon is how it exposes its defenders' little personalities quirks, as their belief system is challenged. The belief in loan+tuition+credential=magic job is sort of a religion. It is, for the moment, the established conventional-wisdom about careers and formal graduate education. Its high-priests are the boomers. It is a fact of human psychology that humans simply like to have some religion, even when they otherwise deny it. The second they abandon one religious belief, they turn to another. Even if they oppose a belief system, their opposition to it itself becomes their belief system, which they, like a true believer, take very seriously and in fact live by.

Recently, on JD Underground, there was an attack of yet another "pull yourself up by your bookstraps, c'mon!" lecturer. In defense of a craigslist ad that paid $15 an hour for a licensed attorney position, the believer/lecturer finished off with a "you've got to pay your dues" line. That is his belief, his religion, when it comes to careers and jobs. Pay your dues, and then your dues pay you back. These kind of bootstraps-people appear, now that the scam has been exposed for several years, as religious fanatics, who cannot help themselves. They think their religion of bootstraps is not only true, but all of us must believe it and live by, as if it were a fundamental law of the universe. If our true believers went back to the 19th century, and saw in the factories eight-year-olds working 16 hour days without so much as a fire escape as a fringe benefit, they would say, "you've got to pay your dues, little Oliver! Sure, your health is permanently damaged due to mercury residue, but hey, life can be hard sometimes. Pull yourself up by your (size 3) bootstraps!" Life can be hard sometimes, son.

So, despite every possible indication to the contrary, even with evidence in mainstream publications like the Times, Journal, or Barron's, showing there is simply a lack of JD-required jobs and (concomitantly) depressed wages for the few jobs there are, one would have to be pretty dense to think that "paying your dues" would solve the problem. The fallacy has been addressed before, and the best response was in the forum, so I will reproduce it; let it be etched in gold plate:
"Pay your dues" implies that there is a reward after paying your dues. The reward can be knowledge or money.

The first premise is easy to dispose; none of the posters averred that they lacked knowledge or that the job would be a teaching experience. If "pay your dues" implies that the education you received was so irrelevant that you should take the job just to gain knowledge, it must mean that the educational system has utterly failed. Then, we might as well shutter all law schools.

The second premise relies on the suggestion that doing work for free or nearly free means that someone will value my work and pay greatly for that. The basic notion of working for free or nearly free is that the work is not valued in the least bit. If a commodity is consistently sold at low prices, it means that the value of the commodity is low. So, paying your dues does not yield a monetary reward now or later.
The response of the true believer of the Church of the Bootstraps? (This is not a joke)
I'll be honest with you. I didn't read your entire post. I got five lines in and gave up. 
If this exchange were in a novel, the publisher would reject it because the ignorance and arrogance displayed by the bootstraper would be unbelievable in an adult. My own response is simpler and would be: What "dues"? How much and why? To whom would we "pay" them anyway? What happens after we pay them? Notice that nobody will answer these questions, because the only people who believe in the "pay your dues" religion would have to admit that it is bogus when applied to the legal profession today.

Perhaps the most likely explanation for the existence of the sacred "pay your dues" faith is that people can't resist personalizing a situation and applying the fundamental attribution error: 1) I worked hard and paid my dues, therefore, I have a job; 2) You do not have a job, therefore must work hard and "pay your dues"! It is so obvious, you spoiled born-after-1964 children! Damn you plastic toy-playing kids! Do you even know what a Radio Flyer is?  


It is a strange thing that this belief is a combination of both insult and compliment; they insult the law grad by implying he is immature and lazy and needs to "pay his dues". But they inadvertently compliment him by implying he can magically turn the situation around through a triumph of the will mentality; he is not a victim of circumstance which is almost impossible to get out of (i.e., no jobs at any living wage), but an unstoppable, "Law & Philosophy" Übermensch who can rise above the world he was born into!
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Read my book-length satire/exposé of law school, Smarter Than Socrates: The End of the Law School Era.

85 comments:

  1. How rambling and incoherent can a single post be??

    I'm pretty sure that "paying your dues" simply refers to paying back the money that you borrow - and only borrowing as much money as you are actually ABLE to pay back.
    Perhaps that IS the exact same thing as forced child labor?

    Speaking as a "millennial" myself, I can tell you that most of the 20- and 30-somethings who graduate today have a fucking TERRIBLE work ethic. I've seen it again and again; if you give them a task, they will phone it in with a barely marginal offering. They expect lavish praise just for showing up. And they have a major sense of entitlement. For Exhibit A, see the above post.

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    1. Er, you really don't know what the phrase "paying your dues" means?

      It's nothing to do with loans. It's a common idiomatic expression that means you must work hard and suffer on order to be rewarded with whatever you were working for. E.g. Freddie Mercury sings about paying his dues in the Queen song, 'We Are The Champions' - the difficulties faced before 'making it'. You think he was singing about paying back his Rock Star University loans?

      Those who use the term 'pay your dues' suggest that you've got to earn your place through hard work and proving yourself worthy. As the poster points out rather well, this doesn't apply to law because when the dues are paid, there are still no jobs to be had. It would be different if for every hardworking law grad, there was a job for them after a few years if hustle. There are no jobs. Just more hustle.

      So, brainiac, perhaps you should at least consult a dictionary before completely misunderstanding what people write.

      Delete
    2. @633,

      Yes, because paying off your student loans involves NO work, or light work at most. Certainly not "hard" work, which - if you read the rest of my post - most recent graduates are simply unwilling to do.

      I'd say the type of "dues" each person "pays" depends on his specific situation, and that for recent law school graduates, it obviously DOES entail paying back those student loans. But next time, I will be sure to consult the, ahem, Freddie Mercury edition of the dictionary before I post.

      LOL

      Delete
    3. @5:50 and 7:05:

      "I'm pretty sure that "paying your dues" simply refers to paying back the money that you borrow - and only borrowing as much money as you are actually ABLE to pay back."

      Er, no. It has nothing to do with that. You still do not understand what the phrase means, even though it is common, not ambiguous, and has a very specific meaning.

      It has no aspect of paying off actual money, or paying anything. It means that you work at something (not paying loans off, but putting hours into a job for free) and in the end you will be rewarded.

      Since you clearly need this explained, here's a link to the definition and some examples:

      http://www.idiomeanings.com/idioms/pay-ones-dues/

      (Note that there's no mention of actually paying off loans. But thanks for playing. Goodbye!)

      Delete
    4. So being free of your debts isn't a "reward," then? I give up on you - to borrow another "common expression," I can't wake someone up when he is only pretending to be asleep.

      Delete
    5. No, it's not - nor is it the "reward" that one is working towards when paying dues after graduating from law school.

      The goal, tard, is to get a good legal job, not to be debt free.

      Delete
    6. Care to put that one to a vote?

      Delete
    7. So you think that the goal of people attending law school is to take on a pile of debt, then pay it off?

      Nice trolling, law professor!

      People go to law school to get attorney jobs, not to get hopelessly in debt and then get the satisfaction of paying if off.

      Delete
    8. Try to keep up. 827's statement was about the goals of people AFTER the graduate from law school.

      Which includes getting out of debt by working.

      Duh.

      Delete
  2. 5:50 AM:

    Actually, I thought the post was very well written and informative. It also speaks volumes about the mentality of your average Baby Boomer and the way they project their life experience onto others without any self-reflective thought or analysis.

    If the only "millennials" you know are the ones you described, then maybe you don't get out enough. Maybe you are too stupid to see otherwise. Either way, maybe you should try ADDRESSING the substance of the argument in the post rather than attacking millenials. Upon self reflection, you may find that your mentality and life view is a part of the problem rather than the solution.

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    1. Um, if I believe that the millennials' work ethic IS part of the problem, it's kind of difficult to make that point WITHOUT "attacking" them in your view. Right?

      Baby Boomers are hit or miss; some are lazy moochers in search of a Great Caretaker, but many of them are outstanding workers. In 2013, the line of demarcation is more or less whether the boomer is employed full-time in the first place.

      More than 99 percent of my fellow millennials, on the other hand (and thank you for "fixing" my correct spelling of that word FTW, you tard), are in the lazy, do-as-little-as-you-can-to-just-barely-get-by camp. With boomers, it's more like 50/50. Clear enough?

      Delete
    2. Nope, not clear at all.

      Where do you get 50% for Baby Boomers?

      Really? 99% of millenials? So you have interviewed them all and found out their work ethic? It must be nice to live your life by gross generalizations and stereotypes. Seriously, do the world a favor and don't reproduce or vote.

      You are a fool and the reason why this country is falling apart. If you have any sort of an education, you should call your school and ask for your money back. You are too stupid to be an alumni anywhere.

      Delete
    3. Well, since I haven't actually "interviewed 99 percent of all millennials," I kind of HAVE to generalize based on experience, right? I suppose you also reject any poll that doesn't interview every single person in America, LOL.

      Sorry to hear that the truth gets your cooter all sore and raw. On the other hand, you HAVE provided the readers with an excellent example of the entitled attitude I was talking about.

      Delete
    4. Bored today, troll?

      Leiter or Painter?

      Delete
    5. Bored? No, actually, I have to go to this strange thing called my "job" shortly so I can help Obammy take care of you. So I guess you will eventually "win" our little discussion by being the last man standing.

      Delete
    6. No, we've already won. You're just too stupid to see that you've lost.

      Enjoy that job. I'm enjoying mine too.

      Delete
    7. Why, do they praise you just for showing up and doing the bare minimum?

      Delete
    8. Yawn. Keep frantically clicking refresh for the next five hours to see who else posts...your trolling is growing old.

      Delete
  3. too much ideology in their breakfast cereal of morning news

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  4. The problem is that many of my baby boomer colleagues "paid their dues" and are now unemployed. The glut of lawyers and the up-or-out system that simply feeds an oversupply of highly trained lawyers into a market with few open jobs is a fact of life. Oversupply is oversupply and "paying your dues" is not going to get most lawyers long-term jobs or careers.

    If you are a specialist,as I am, it will be difficult to open your own law firm - the work is mostly centered in larger law firms because in many areas only larger companies need the legal services. Small companies can do it without a lawyer. Large companies tend to use large or at least established law firms, and rarely use solo practitioners. You need to make a huge monetary investment with possibly years of no income to make a practice work.

    As an unemployed Columbia Law grad who has worked like a dog my whole life, made many sacrifices and is facing long-term unemployment despite an aggressive job search, I can tell you paying your dues is nonsense in this market.

    My colleagues who are similarly situated will tell you the same thing. Most of us are older women. If we were younger women, we would have jobs.

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  5. Great post. The fallacy of the moral fallacy.

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  6. It is easy for spoiled kids and Boomer pigs to tell others to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." Those from well-off families typically do not need to incur much, if any, student debt. As such, these dolts cannot understand the toll that non-dischargeable debt takes on people's lives.

    The Boomer swine cannot relate, because MANY of these ass-clowns graduated with a 2.9 GPA, while majoring in American History at State U. - and then waltzed into a nice career, upon receiving their BA. In the end, these two groups tend to attribute their success with their own "hard work" - while viewing others as "lazy." They also conveniently ignore their own advantages, from either birth or circumstances, i.e. growing up in 1950s or 1960s, when the U.S. was wildly expanding and war-torn Europe and Japan were still trying to rebuild their economies.

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    1. Yeah, but most of them actually ARE better workers - by any objective measure.

      I would hire the average boomer over you in an instant, Nando - without actually knowing how you get on at your job, I'm willing to bet that you spend most of it griping and talking about feces.

      Delete
    2. It took you four years of applying to law school before you were admitted, waterhead.

      http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2012/05/fourth-tier-oklahoma-city-university.html

      "Anonymous

      May 16, 2012 at 6:37 PM

      I used to go to Western New England College. I was excited, after applying and being denied to law schools for 3 years before. I finally got in, moved across the US, and started. I did very well, getting top 5-10% grades my first semester and not doing quite as well the second semester, but ending with top 18%. I was cocky and thought I was amazing. I came to this blog, fists out, mouth roaring. I gave Nando and JDPainter a bunch of crap. I laughed at those who thought law school was a waste. I said I was different and would end with an AMAZING job because I was "so smart". I am sure there are THOUSANDS of people like that out there.

      Above I posted a post about my return. Truth is, I struggled through my second year of law school. I transferred to a much higher ranked school but had a hell of a time getting settled in. My grades were among THE WORST OF MY CLASS the first semester of 2L. I secretly came to Nando's blog and the others. I started to realize that there was much truth to these blogs.

      I am now going into my 3rd year of law school. I have no job lined up for the summer. I have no want to be a lawyer. I think, no, scratch that, I hope that I can find something after law school. Maybe I will be a teacher. Maybe I will get a job as a telemarketer. I don't know. Truth was I was cocky, and I ended up regretting it.

      Kids, listen to Nando. Listen to these people. Do NOT think you are different. Life can throw you a curve ball. That being said, if you are in law school have some other options ready. You may not like law (I don't want to practice it, and right now with Diablo III out, I care less about working an internship -- what good would it do me anyway? Not like they pay.) Also, be aware that your grades are almost random. I was not smart my first year like I thought. Instead I was lucky. And I don't believe in luck.

      The World Traveling Law Student"

      Delete
    3. From the same thread, regarding Oklahoma City "University" Sewer of Law extending its admi$$ion$ deadline:

      "Anonymous

      May 17, 2012 at 5:12 PM

      Nando, I know it is hard for you to grasp, but I honestly agree with your blog and message. Of course, you should have seen this coming, and further, I do deserve the beating I am getting, but I am admitting you were right. If anything, this should send a chill down any cocky 1L's spine.

      The World Traveling Law Student
      The World T"

      Are you upset that you did not heed the message about the law school scam, and enrolled anyway? If so, then you need to direct your anger at the loser you see in the mirror every morning. Get a life and find a job.

      Delete
    4. Four years? Says who, some anonymous commenter a year ago?

      Tch-tch, it looks like millennials are lazy researchers, too.

      Delete
    5. Those comments came from you, boy. Backing away from one's comments is the hallmark of integrity and manliness, right?!?! Since you don't have a job lined up - on your blog you stated that you and your wife would like to move back to California - you can always apply to convenience stores and call centers. Make sure to leave the JD off your resume. If you get an interview, don't be yourself. HR managers tend to avoid hiring pretentious douchebags.

      Delete
    6. Complaining nonstop is the "hallmark" of a whiny bitch.

      Madam?

      Delete
    7. You are the queen of pathetic bitches. Plus, it's obvious that you hate yourself.

      Look at the chronology, moron:

      You posted anonymous comments as WTLS WNEC|Top 18%. Later on, when you fell on your face at the school you transferred to - you posted the remarks above, "I agree with you blog and message, Nando. I deserve the beating I'm getting." After that, you then started a blog that no longer allows comments, since so many people were correctly telling you that you are a tool. Subsequently, you posted a YT video where you - in your geeky Napoleon Dynamite voice - claimed "I will destroy the scamblogs." Now you are posting anonymous comments on this forum, acting as though you are several people. Have you named the voices in your head yet, schizophrenic ass-wipe?

      Delete
    8. Wow. The denial is strong with this one.

      Delete
    9. Mr. Infinity - I'm sorry, World Travelling (because no law school wants him for more than six months) Law Student - is a hypocrite. He spends all of his time whining and bitching about people who are supposedly whining and bitching about the law school scam, and apologizing for the "winners" that make money off this scam. This guy is destined for complete failure, and in my book is the only victim of the scam that deserves his fate.

      Delete
    10. And there we have it. 9:56, Painter reveals himself as today's mega troll. All you, right Painter?

      Delete
  7. Another great post from PB.

    The "pay your dues" line really pisses me off. Such sentiments stem from a belief in a broader social contract, that the young struggle and then thrive as the older generation dies and retires. That companies reward loyalty and hard work. That everyone has a time that comes.

    It's utterly bogus and is nothing more than a tool of exploitation used by the landed elites. If you really want me to "pay my dues," sign an enforceable contract with me.

    And for that matter, I'm 30, have 7 years of education, and 4 years of work experience. I've never made more than 35,000 in any calendar year and am no place to buy a home or get married and have kids. What the hell were the last 11 years if not the "dues" you speak of? Do you think I was frolicking in college for four years? Wasted grad school? Just blew off work?

    It's so fucking absurd. I've been out of high school 11 years. I have a graduate education, during which time I lived on $15k/year. I have had terrible bosses who demand ridiculous things. You know what? I want a job where I can make a living wage and pay back my lines. That's not an undue entitlement. Whatever "dues" your sick mind thinks I owe, I've paid them.

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    1. You left school when you were 12?

      Delete
    2. To the OP:

      ^^^^^ This. ^^^^^

      You've PAID them. In Spades.

      You're 30, in debt, and behind the 8-Ball, etc. And you are, by far, not the only one. There are tens of thousands of you out there.

      The "Pay your dues" crap is more BS, as you rightly say. To keep you working hard, making other people money, making their lives better, etc. at your expense.

      Whether you actually experience reward at some point.. is irrelevant. Odds are you won't. That's how the System is designed to work today. To keep you working hard and poor, etc. never getting ahead.

      Your post really struck a cord with me because of how well its expressed and how exactly it nails the situation.

      Best of luck out there friend. Best of luck.

      Delete
    3. It is a sense of entitlement. To be specific, you think you are "entitled" to a full-time job because you graduated.

      Um, no ... you are only entitled to as much money as someone else is willing (not forced) to pay you.

      The value of your services to someone else is apparently 35,000 per year. If that isn't enough for you, develop a new set of skills.

      I mean, really, is the grad school now supposed to hand you a diploma that's wrapped around a shiny, trillion-dollar Obamapenny on graduation day? Am I supposed to hand you one?

      Or what?

      Delete
    4. If schools had not deceived or committed outright fraud in enticing 0Ls lemmings in their "marketing", then perhaps your "entitlement" BS might have a point. But I think that while no one should feel "entitled" to a certain outcome, everyone is entitled to full and accurate facts.

      If I buy a car that says it does 30mpg, I am "entitled" to expect that not 30mpg when going downhill or some nonsense.

      Delete
    5. I'm sure. How many EXCUSES are you entitled to, you poor gullible thing?

      Delete
    6. So 6:56pm troll, what kind of deception and fraud are law schools entitled to?

      Delete
    7. I'm 7:40.

      To "Drstudmonkey":

      Yes, I have a sense of entitlement. You know why? Because from age 5 to age 18, every parent, teacher, and guidance counselor told me that if I worked hard and went to college and succeeded, there would be a place for me in the economy. I'm smart and have worked hard my entire life. Go to college, everyone said, and you'll make more than a living wage; you'll make enough to be a positive member of the community, etc. A great mind itself was the skill set.

      From 18-22 I heard the same thing, that by getting a degree at my school, I would be a shoe-in to get a solid job in business, consulting, etc., and that even if I didn't, I could get a masters or go to law school and be incredibly marketable. I worked for a few years and went to a law school that promised 90+% employment at a median salary of $80k. I specifically asked about non-law opportunities, and I got a gushing career services person who told me the value of the degree to local employers in business, government, compliance, etc.

      Now, people want you want to tell me I have a sense of entitlement to expect anything more than breaking even. Well, YES, I DO. Because I've heard 25 years of lies that constitute a form of social contract that no one actually wants to honor.

      All I needed was the truth. In high school, in college, and before law school. But society - predominantly the boomer generation - chronically lied to me (and my whole generation) about the marketability of certain skills.

      I would have been better off getting a community college degree in HVAC or auto mechanics or healthcare or plumbing or IT networking stuff. I'd be 10 years into a career of some kind and debt-free.

      So yeah, I feel I'm entitled to a certain level based on the systematic representations of the society at large. It doesn't help that peers in undergrad with equal or lesser skillsets make 50-60k based on who mommy and daddy are or that peers in law school now make 80k because they interned with the right person and I networked with the wrong crowd.

      AND FOR THAT MATTER, don't even get me started on the numerous entitlements and social contracts that Baby Boomers and the War Generation have demanded and/or benefited from. People in those generations are absolutely not in any place to whine about entitlements under implied social contracts.

      So yeah, I feel entitled. I should feel entitled, as should anyone who invested in an education or training that pledged certain returns. At the very least, I should have the right to declare bankruptcy, but in a sane society there would be some sort of restitution or grant system to account for the massive deception at work in oversupplying a generation with massive amounts of training funded by nondischargable debt that the economy has no use for.

      I'm not entitled to a full-time job because I graduated from a law school. But I am entitled to something for the fact that I've invested all of my adult life in personal betterment and spent considerable sums/opportunity costs, all of which seem induced at this point by fraud at a massive level.

      Delete
    8. Yeah, you and like everyone else in our generation.

      If your mind is really as "great" as you think it is, perhaps you should have taken some of those rosy statements from others a little more critically.

      I don't take pleasure from your tale of woe, but what is it that you WANT, exactly? Even without the loans - a guaranteed job for life? With a guaranteed salary? And in what amount? I don't care HOW mesmerizing your parents/colleagues/etc were - NO reasonable person would expect any of those things as a matter of right.

      If you really believe that HVAC would be more remunerative, then you should pursue it. Don't cry over lost time - it's gone, and you'll never be as young again as you are today. But fair warning: I actually asked the guy fixing my A/C what it's like, and he told me that it pays far less than most people think.

      That's generally a good idea no matter what career you are considering: talking to actual practitioners before taking the plunge. It certainly is good advice for anyone who is considering law school - especially those who think they are "smart."

      Delete
    9. OMG.. You nailed it again:

      "I would have been better off getting a community college degree in HVAC or auto mechanics or healthcare or plumbing or IT networking stuff. I'd be 10 years into a career of some kind and debt-free."

      -----------------

      And THAT is what I wanted to do. 2-yr. trade school for HVAC or some such after High School. But no.. The Educators pushed college. College pushed MBA and LS, etc.

      You get "funneled" into the System, indoctrinated, because of the myth of Higher Ed. == Better Job.

      Parents push you because they are similarly indoctrinated. It's all crap. And you worked harder than the jerkoffs and spent the time and the money.. And come up empty and below "0".

      Entitled??

      Come again??

      Delete
    10. To add:

      You were clearly mislead. Your law school mislead you with stats, etc.

      Everyone in this fucking world seems to have a vested interest in screwing the young for their own financial gain. Boomers, yes, especially.

      And you and I will never recoup the time spent or the youth wasted - and yes, it was wasted. When you aren't financially compensated, it's wasted. Period.

      The least of the problems, and this is the sick part, really is the money. And that's saying quite a lot. You never get a second chance because of time lost.

      Delete
    11. I'm reading this book about the Gold Rush of 1849. Early on, it was like printing money for the early arrivals. You could actually just walk around and pick up gold nuggets off of the ground. After awhile, all of that disappeared, but you could still get a fair amount by panning. Then even that thinned out.

      The people who really got slammed were the ones who trekked out there at the end - they incurred great costs that they never recouped.

      When a once-viable way of making money dries up, it isn't really anyone's fault. I definitely would not say that society in 1851 owed the unsuccessful prospectors some kind of life debt. The same thing goes for law school graduates today.

      Delete
    12. "Yeah, you and like everyone else in our generation.

      If your mind is really as "great" as you think it is, perhaps you should have taken some of those rosy statements from others a little more critically.

      I don't take pleasure from your tale of woe, but what is it that you WANT, exactly?"

      ------

      I'm not the poster you responded to but I think this "caveat emptor" attitude of yours is bullshit! (that the marks need to be fully responsible for detecting fraud and deception). I suppose Madoff's victims should be treated the same (they should have been more "critical") while Madoff himself should have been let off acording to you too!

      As for what the scammed law school victims want, I think restoring bankruptcy protection would be a great start. In exchange, we'll renounce the JD, all law licenses, and the practice of law forever. So no we can't get back the wasted years but at least we can get a true fresh start.




      Delete
    13. "When a once-viable way of making money dries up, it isn't really anyone's fault. I definitely would not say that society in 1851 owed the unsuccessful prospectors some kind of life debt. The same thing goes for law school graduates today."

      -----

      I can't speak to the Gold Rush of 1849, but I can tell you that the problems of law school grads today clearly is the fault of the law schools. Their lies and deceptions have clearly enticed a lot of students to attend.

      Frankly I just don't see how the Gold Rush of 1849 is anything similar. Was there outfits back then that heavily advertised and enticed lemmings to pay or borrow the equivalent of $200k to be transported to the gold mines? If not, then I don't see the analogy at all.

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    14. What do I want, you ask?

      1. The right to declare whatever students loans I have dischargable in bankruptcy and/or forgiven b/c the U.S. government realizes it screwed up terribly.

      2. A minimum social safety net that counts state-sanctioned education as a form of employment for unemployment purposes.

      3. Economic reform that honestly addresses generational issues and the need for labor opportunities at all economic strata and/or redistributes the benefits of globalization and economic productivity more rationally among the population (and no, in case you missed that class, that is not socialism).

      Apparently, despite my disclaimer that I don't expect a job, you think I expect a job. I don't. I expect our society to recognize the severe issues that plague our labor economy. You allege I called my mind "great." I didn't and it's not. It's good, top 1% on every test I've ever taken, but the fundamental problem is that there are tens of thousands like me who are stuck in dead ends from 25 up because we had the audacity to pursue higher education.

      The state, at the very least, owes us some sort of pragmatic solution instead of telling us that we haven't paid our dues or that education is the way of the future (bs), or that we need to get over our sense of "entitlement," even though the ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD RUNS ON ENTITLEMENTS.

      You/someone want to bring up the gold rush. WHO told people there was gold? WHY did they act? Was the US government subsidizing their trip? Did they have bankruptcy protection?

      No one here is claiming you can't lose money in a business move.

      -original comment poster

      Delete
    15. Tch-tch, how foolish of me. Per your comment, you don't want a guaranteed JOB for life - you want to cut out all that BS in the middle and just receive a free CHECK for life instead. Is THAT what those Svengalis at the law schools promised you - eternal free money in exchange for 3 years of tuition and study? If you fell for this extremely elaborate web of lies, maybe I could sell you a bridge or two as well?

      By the way, where is the money for your little life present supposed to come from, exactly? The same private sector that is loaded with overcredentialed, underemployed people? LOL, maybe the unemployed should just meet every month and write each other checks for a million dollars.

      The taxpayers owes you nothing. If anything, you owe THEM - subtracting your "refund," how much did you actually pay in taxes last year? Far from having a "great" mind (which you most certainly DID claim in your original post), you are a blithering idiot if you think that any society actually "runs on entitlements." Not even a pure communist system "runs on" the money it pays out; instead, an economy "runs on" the SOURCE of its money (i.e. labor, mineral deposits, manufacturing, or whatever). I may not have a "great mind" or "top 1 percent" intellect like you (who oddly enough seem unable to translate that gift into a top 1 percent income), but I'm pretty sure that I had mastered THAT tricky concept by the time I graduated from elementary school.

      I feel less sorry for you with each successive post you make. In the course of our dialogue, you've already gone from denying an entitled mentality to demanding direct payments for life from the government -all because you were "tricked" into attending grad school many years ago.

      .....

      Is that you, Paintroach?

      Delete
    16. I think you have some colossal shortcomings in the ability to read and reason. I never said I had a "great" mind (cite, please?), nor did I say I envisioned an economy that operated free of production (which would be asinine), nor did I even state I wanted direct payments from the government for life (which of my three points provides for THAT?).

      I have no interest in debating with someone so devoid in intellectual honesty that he/she keeps reframing issues and developing straw men. It's no wonder that you claim ludicrous things like "the taxpayers owes (sic) you nothing."

      -original comment poster.

      Delete
    17. And yet those colossal shortcomings haven't prevented me from earning more than enough money to live on ever since I graduated - AND to save/invest what's left over. What a baffling mystery that must be to you.

      LOL, you seriously mean to tell me you couldn't earn more than $35K by getting a job with the typo police? (sic) indeed. Nice catch, dude.

      So when the ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD, liek, RUNS ON ENTITLEMENTS, that ISN'T an economy that is "free of production?" It sure sounds like one to me. At any rate, I didn't see anything in your comment about YOUR desire to produce anything. You're more interested in consuming what other people produce. That's where your "redistribution" comes in. You don't think incomes should be "redistributed" forever? Maybe only for 5 years? You aren't fooling anybody. All three of your demands really come down to the same thing: you want a shitload of money that you didn't earn.

      LOL, still waiting for you to say how much you paid in income taxes. I'm pretty sure I know the answer already (hint: it's equal to Mr. Blutarsky's GPA).

      America would really be better off it it just stopped trying to compromise with the 740s of the world and just let you all live under a bridge and bum change off of people all day. Somehow I think it would be a natural fit for you, given your attitude.

      Delete
    18. And P.S. World-destroying typo aside, how exactly is it "ludicrous" for me to say that the taxpayers owe you nothing?

      Is it THAT obvious that they DO owe you something?

      Delete
    19. You seem to have no problem with law school scammers getting hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed student loan money while you think that they should get every last penny while the the student should pay every last penny include all interest and fees.

      To me the fair solution is simple. Allow bankruptcy for student loans (SAME AS ALL OTHER DEBT!). In exchange cancel the JD and all law licenses for life. Then going forward limit student loans to schools where IBR/default rates are high get cut off.

      You seem to have no problem with the law school scammers getting all this scammed money though so you obviously wouldn't support such sensible solutions.

      Delete
  8. The thing about "paying your dues" in law (or any profession) is that this only works if there is enough work/demand for everyone to go around in the first place. If there are, say, 2x the supply of professionals as there is demand, paying your dues doesn't generate any new demand. Half of the people won't succeed by definition even if everyone "paid their dues".

    The implicit assumption to this "pay your dues" argument is that there is enough work to go around and you just have to work at it to get it. But as I said before, you can't generated extra demand for legal services simply by paying your dues. You can only out-compete others in this static or even shrinking pie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exactly, if therr are no paying clients for the work, then there simply is no money to support anyone who wants to "pay their dues". You can work hard until you are blue in the face and it will not make a difference if the system is rigged or out of sync with supply and demand.

      Delete
    2. Exactly, if therr are no paying clients for the work, then there simply is no money to support anyone who wants to "pay their dues". You can work hard until you are blue in the face and it will not make a difference if the system is rigged or out of sync with supply and demand.

      Delete
  9. There are idiots here that need the phrase "pay your dues" explained half a dozen times? The f---.

    We are doomed as a society and nation.

    Better learn to speak Chinese or North Korean..... :(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, one thing is clear, it has nothing WHAT. SO. EVER. to do with paying back any money you borrowed. It refers exclusively to working for free.

      Just ask Freddie Mercury.

      Delete
    2. Face it dude, you got it wrong, you didn't know what paying your dues meant, and you're embarrassed. I would be too. We all make mistakes. Some of us learn from them though.

      Delete
    3. And 1:39, I'm glad you now realize that it actually has nothing to do with paying back student loans. But keep pretending that you were right, and maybe you'll convince us all that you didn't make a fool of yourself earlier today when you thought that it was about boomers telling us to pay back our loans.

      Delete
    4. I think the troll of the day is getting his metaphors confused. He's thinking of "time to pay the piper", which would mean that it's time to pay the student loans back. Paying dues has nothing to do with paying what is owed.

      Delete
    5. O RLY? Do you even know what "dues" are in the first place? As in, a membership fee that is owed?

      Someone is confused about their metaphors, but it isn't me. Of course, the point is kind of moot since you don't pay your dues OR the piper.

      LOL, maybe you should hold a seance and ask the noted philologist Freddie Mercury what he thinks.

      Delete
    6. Awesome trolling dude! What an achievement! Tomorrow you will wake up and this post will be in the past and you'll wonder why you bothered to spend half your day here, and you'll wonder whether your IT department at work will see your trail of clicks and clicks and clicks and posts. Sad.

      Delete
  10. To Mr. (Professor?) Troll:

    You have made this one of the most popular posts on this site. So instead of silencing this message, you're making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. People will now look at it, Google will rank it higher, and the damage will be greater to the scam.

    Sincerely,

    Someone Who Thinks You Are A Douchebag
    (That's everyone)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry to hear I missed the election. I gather from your comment that it was unanimous. What's your honorific, anyway? King of the Poverty-Stricken Debt-Flattened Supergeniuses?

      I would TOTALLY have voted for you.

      Delete
    2. P.S. Even 10 comments would make this story "one of the most popular posts" on this site. LOL, your tens of readers are about so make the whole system come crashing down.

      Delete
    3. 30K posts in under 1 month? Yeah thats nothing.

      What does your blog get, Jealous Guy?

      3 per day?

      lol loser

      Delete
    4. and this blog is obviously one of your favorites as you spent the entire day here.

      lol again loser jealousman

      Delete
    5. @804,

      Yes, this site receives 30,000 comments in less than a month.

      Or, in other words, more than 1,000 comments per day.

      Yesterday it received 31 comments.


      31 < 1,000

      Your bunghole must be the size of the Holland Tunnel, because you just pulled a huuuuuge one out of it this time.

      LOL

      Delete
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