Monday, April 29, 2013

International Law? You have got to be kidding me.

I received a copy of this mailing from a friend who was just flabbergasted at its insanity. Take a look at what you can expect your law school to be spending your tuition money on, and asking you for more money to fund even when you graduate:

Here's the text from the front:

Whether or not a student wants to practice locally or internationally, a basic knowledge of international law is now required.

And from the back:

The Annual Fund will support the expansion of the school’s international law curriculum and programs.  Students will hear from speakers, attend conferences, study and work abroad, and choose classes from an ever-growing curriculum taught by a world class faculty.
 (along with Professor Giorgetti's profile, which can be found here.)

From what I gather, this is a fundraising effort from the University of Richmond – not one of the traditional trash schools, but hardly up there with Harvard either – and was sent to alumni, begging for money to bolster its “international law curriculum and programs.” Really.  Have applicants still not learned the following truths about the mythical career in “international law”?

For all intents and purposes, it does not exist, because there are (a) only about five openings per year, and (b) you’re not getting one of them if you graduate from anywhere but Harvard or Yale.

Want some proof?  How about you look at Richmond's latest employment stats, found here.

  • How many students got JD-required jobs?  58%.  If the school can't even get barely above 50% JD employment, then what chance do its grads have at the top jobs?  Hardly a degree in demand.

  • And how many grads in firms where international issues might realistically come up?  9.  Not 9%.  9 grads.

  • But surely this international law powerhouse sends plenty of grads overseas to work internationally on international matters of international law?  Er, no.  Zero grads work abroad.

  • The school sends more grads - a whole 2 - to West Virginia, its third biggest employment location, than abroad.  That's like the opposite of international, right?  When you send your grads to places where the average citizen doesn't even know that there's any countries except the USA?

Ok, so looking at Professor Giorgetti’s bio, she’s one of the unicorns – someone who actually has a claim to have practiced international law.  International boundary disputes, war claims commissions, international investment disputes, and she put in some time at the International Court of Justice at The Hague.  I’ll give her credit for that; she does seem like a legit international lawyer.  But dear applicant, don’t fall for the trap: none of her magic, and none of her prestige, will rub off on you (although doubtless some of the male students will be, no, forget that joke.)  When you graduate from the University of Richmond, or any other non-Harvard and non-Yale law school, you will be just another average to below-average law grad, desperately hoping for any kind of paid employment in any field.  Only a select few have the creds to get one of the handful of legitimate jobs in international law.

Compare yourself to Professor Giorgetti to see what you’re up again.  I made you a handy table.

See the difference?  You just don’t stack up to the kind of person who gets those kinds of jobs.  Not even close.  That’s why you aren’t getting the jobs, and it’s why you never will get those kinds of jobs.  (Admittedly, some of her work experience was after she became a lawyer, but still, that’s who you’re competing against for those prestigious international law jobs.)

Now, I’ve complimented her enough.  She is literally the perfect law professor; practice experience, stellar creds, and possibly the most beautiful professor I have ever laid eyes on.  (And you’re an idiot if you take issue with me bringing her physical appearance into the equation, because employers do notice, especially those Europeans with their "bunga bunga parties" and cheek-kissing and perfect little bodies, places where us chubby American girls don't stand a chance.)  Why she isn’t at a better school than Richmond is beyond me – I’m sure a rather fat paycheck had something to do with it, or some under-the-counter perks such as guaranteed tenure after one year - but whatever.  That's her business.  It’s time to take issue with her moronic quotation:

“Whether or not a student wants to practice locally or internationally, a basic knowledge of international law is now required.”


Maybe she doesn't speak English properly and mixed her words up.  Let me, she speaks fluent English.  So she's serious?

Perhaps for grads of Harvard and Yale, where they might actually come into contact with something international in their careers.  But for everyone else?  The grads from the other 99% of law schools in the US, who will be working (if they’re lucky) in small firms, third-rate markets, or as solo practitioners and document reviewers?  They need no knowledge of international law whatsoever, certainly not to the extent of attending a law school with an international law program that is doubtless costing a fortune to set up and run, the costs of which are passed along to these hapless students. What they need is incidental knowledge at best, not three international law classes in law school.

That quote is clearly from someone whose career has been so lofty and prestigious that she simply has no idea what life will be like for her students when they graduate.  But I suppose she has to say things like this to justify why she should get a job as a law professor, right?  She learns quickly, does Professor Giorgetti - the way to keep a job as a law professor is to say things that sound like you're job is important, when in reality, it's not. Certainly not at this kind of toilet where there are zero international lawyers produced and few, if any, who even work in firms that have foreign offices.

There is no need for a knowledge of international law in residential real estate.  Or family law.  Or traffic tickets.  Or any of the other boring tasks that make up the day of 99% of all lawyers.  But before you jump on me and say, “Ooooh oooh oooh what about immigration issues in divorce, or criminal issues for immigrants, or someone foreign buying real estate”, that’s not international law; that’s US law as it pertains to foreigners.  Big difference.  (Immigration law, for almost every practitioner, is US law that happens to deal with foreign citizens.  It’s still US law.)

What these schools are selling, when they talk about international law programs, are these ideas that their grads will be studying these cerebral issues like war crimes, international trade disputes, and things like that, and that their grads will go off to work for multinational law firms, foreign governments, international courts and suchlike.  These schools are not selling the idea that you’ll be figuring out how to plead in a DUI when your client holds an H-1B visa, which is about as international as most lawyers ever get.  These international programs are pure theory, pure mental masturbation for a select few professors, and will stay that way because few, if any, grads from schools like the University of Richmond will ever have gainful employment at that level (and by that, I mean beyond bullshit unpaid internships and things like that, which might be prestigious, but are hardly “careers” in international law.)  Real life lawyers need knowledge of US law as it pertains to the handful of foreign citizens who they may have as clients, but it’s nothing that can’t be learned in a three hour CLE of practical issues that you need to watch out for.  It certainly doesn’t need an entire law school specialty program.

And note to law schools: how about you figure out how to teach your students basic US law first, before running off and setting up expensive international law programs?

Professor Giorgetti is clearly an accomplished, experienced, high-caliber person, and one who looks like she’d make an excellent law professor: smart, real world experience, and highly-qualified, not like half of the dummies with JDs and no legal experience who inhabit law school faculty lounges.  If anything, we need every professor to be like her.  And by all means teach an international law class or two, because it is interesting, if not particularly relevant.  But hounding alumni with such a dumb fundraising campaign, and setting up such irrelevant fluff when we haven’t even figured out how to produce practice-ready grads yet?  Please.

As an aside, if you’re someone who does donate to law school alumni fundraising campaigns, here’s my suggestion: continue to do so if you must, but accompany your donation with a letter stating that you condition it on being used for debt repayment plans for unemployed graduates, or practical training programs like clinics, or something else that will really help.  Setting up an international law program is just madness, and shows the utter insanity, the complete disconnect with reality, of those who run law schools these days.  Don’t validate it with your money.


  1. Mr. Infinity has an interesting post up about student loan debt and suicide. I actually find myself agreeing 100% to it!

    1. Of course you do, because you are Mr. Infinity.

      Fall face first into a puddle of AIDS.

  2. That table shows what today's typical students are up against, when competing for international law jobs. Ted Sorensen was JFK's primary speech writer; he was also an advisor. He ended up practicing international law, after he left his position. He graduated from the University of Nebraska Sewer of Law.

    What's that you say, lemming?!?! If he can do it, then so can you?!

    Keep in mind that this man was born in 1928. I'm sure that he was an exception to the rule back then. If you want a shot in hell of practicing in this exclusive field, then you need undergrad and law degrees from Ivy League schools. Prep school helps, too. You need the right family name - or you must simply kick the living hell out of your elite college and law courses.

    1. I think it's great that you feel that you are a beacon for change in this 'situation' as it could be called. I disagree that there is a 'situation' here however. In fact, I think that you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Why don't you spend the time and energy that you spend on these internet sites and improve your lives, spend time with your family/children and live your life? What do you get by being on the internet all the time? Is this honestly how you want to live the glorious life that God gave you?

    2. Swallow a shotgun with a toe trigger, Mr. Infinity

  3. I hope to God Mr. Infinity is never admitted to any state bar.

    Mr. Infinity is a liar with many faces. He wrote to me last summer and said that he wanted to drive me to suicide

    I have a hard copy of the comment and here it is:

    Friday, August 24th, 2012:

    "No, I want to drive YOU to suicide, so you will STOP COMPARING YOUR LAW DEGREE TO MY LAW DEGREE.

    Do NOT degrade my education and career with your shitty experience.

    And every time I see you post ANYWHERE, I will trash what you hold dear. I love my law degree and I value my education. You seem to love your parents and grandparents.

    So here goes: your grandfather did not build anything. he worked sucking cocks in the toilets of the construction site. The only "steel" he erected was the cocks of the sex-starved construction workers when he stuck his licked finer up their assholes to make them cum quicker.

    Post again ANYWHERE Painter, and I'll repost another "Painter's Family" story for us all to share. Next time, his name gets attached to the story , so its archived by Google for all to see when they search for his achievements.

    You destroy shit I hold dear, and I'll destroy shit you hold dear. My law degree is not THROWAWAY TRASH like yours.

    And fuck you for needing personal info about anybody, your (sic) creepy fucking stalker. Facts speak louder than identities, and you and Nando fucked yourselves by thinking that your real identities added to your legitimacy. Campos made that mistake too. So don't try to draw anyone else into the shitmarsh of internet infamy and permanent unemployability you have created for yourself. It just goes to show us how FRUCKING DUMB you are. And you and Nando have given EVERYBODY sufficient facts about yourselves, directly and indirectly, for us all to make a damn good judgement about EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE AND WHY NOBODY WILL EVER EMPLOY YOU.

    Mr. infinity is sick and cruel individual and has attacked and attacked me anonymously and has caused me much distress and upset.

    Please, if his co worker reads this, get in touch with Nando or your boss at the law firm and show him a copy of the above letter.

    It is my belief that Mr. Infinity is not harmless and I worry greatly about him since he knows my name and address and I know nothing about who he is.

    John Koch (Painter)
    Long Island

    1. Nobody cares. And the letter that you just quoted IS harmless.

      That message was sent to you ONE TIME (and maybe not even that); you on the other hand have posted it about a hundred times!

      You are a dirty old man who lives with his parents.

      That dingleberry doesn't know me, and I am NOT a "minority," anyway!

      P.S. Get a government job.

    2. Find me that government job that you claim are so easy to get.

    3. Better yet just have the courage to face me and say who you are.

    4. But at least you admitted that you wrote that horrible letter.

      Please just say who you really are. All will be forgiven.

    5. No, even BETTER yet, use my name and take that government job yourself. Work there for ten years and have my debts discharged for me. I'd say that's about fair. Lord knows *I'm* not going to do any work. Work sickens me!

    6. Because you are on a government disability pension.

      I apologize. I understand now.

      No harm in knowing your name though. I promise, I forgive you.

      Your law degree is something to be proud of considering everything.

  4. Are law schools or lemmings still convincing themselves that taking on shitty asylum claims or immigration petitions based on sham marriages before a kangaroo immigration court constitutes practicing "international law?"

  5. McGeorge, yes, freaking McGeorge touts its international law offerings. the only international law you can get out of McGeorge is to open up a solo shingle in somewhere in California's San Joaquin Valley, have 100% client who don't speak English, and go bankrupt.

  6. Want to feel depressed?

  7. Want to feel really afraid of America and of a very frightening man called Dave Ramsey?

    1. If you actually listened to Dave Ramsey's advice, Roach-Man, you never would have taken out a loan for all that money in the first place.

      And how very terrifying. What, is Dave Ramsey the one demanding a half-million dollar gift from the taxpayers or something? That sounds more like you.

    2. support your military vets.

    3. ^ Haha, back in 'nam they used to call me the Roachcrusher.

      So I guess you are hard at work on your apology to Antonio de Necochia by now, right?

  8. Painter, seriously, FUCK THE HELL OFF!!!!!

    Your are ruining this blog.

    I'll do Infinity's job for him. Here's "Painter's Family"


    Karl Koch, or Karl "the Cock" Koch, started the Karl Koch Erecting Company, or "Karl's Cock Erecting Company", in the 1920s. Started from a portajon behind the on-site office at the WTC, he spent his early years jerking off dudes for cash because he was too much of a pussy to do any real building work. His girly hands, kept gentle by his favored habit of rubbing expelled jizz into his skin, were a major lunchbreak attraction on the site, and Karl priced himself competitively - just a "nickel per tickle" as he joked. His speciality was the "shitter", in which the workman could take a dump while Karl jerked him off, killing two birds with one stone on their short workbreaks.

    Karl pioneered the use of more advanced techniques, such as the "steel erection", where he would lick a finger, insert it into the anus of the worker and tickle the prostate to induce a hard erection and a powerful orgasm. He also enjoyed performing rusty trombones on those who had opted for a "shitter" but dropped the turd before cumming; in fact, he once joked that he should change the name to the "Karl Koch Brass Company", such was his expertise in that arena.

    Many days, he would jerk off over fifty guys. Such was the demand that he branched out into anal sex, often receiving up to ten different guy's cocks into his ass in the space of an hour. He was famous for writing a letter to the NY subway system, apologizing for "repoeatedly wetting the seat" with sperm.


    Want me to continue, Painter?

    1. Go on digging, you coward.

      I know your name now.

    2. What is it then, "Painter"?

      Man up and prove it.

      Because we all know yours.

      John Koch.

      Koch Sucker.

      Koch Lover.

      What's my name?


      Yeah, I thought so, you fucking moribund fag. Go hang yourself. Your parents will be relieved.

    3. ^ Support your military vets.

  9. International LOLApril 29, 2013 at 5:45 PM

    I want to be able to be destitute and unemployed on all seven continents.

  10. Painter's dad is gay.

    Painter's mom is a fucking whore.

  11. If you practice in a major law firm or major corporation, or have clients that are doing work abroad, you get international experience. Not clear that it raises to the level of "international law." More typically, an M&A deal where as the U.S. lawyer in whatever field you are on the phone with your counterpart in another country trying to figure out if all is well with foreign whatevers the company that is being bought or sold has in the foreign country.

    Not so glamourous usually. Sometimes very hard to direct dial to the other country.

    No way this requires more knowledge of international law than picking up the phone and asking the foreign lawyer the right questions. You know what questions to ask because you have some expertise in the U.S. law in your area of practice and a lot of practical experience.

    If you need licenses or whatever in the foreign country, you are relying on foreign lawyers or other experts. Same if you are doing a contract in the foreign country.

    Aside from this, you do not need to know much about foreign law. You just need to know how to ask the right questions.

    A lot of this law is practiced in major cities, and many but not all people who practice it went to high rated law schools. Others simply did well in not so high rated law schools or did well in their law practice and got to have an international component in what they do.

    1. OMG, a sensible comment?

      You're on the money with "international law" being knowing how to pick up the phone and ask your contact attorney in that country what the deal is. There really is no international law. It's more like "knowing a dude in that country who I can call for advice."

      But this flyer proves that schools are still selling this myth that grads can be these international, first-class-flying, bilingual, high-paid super diplomats.


      For anyone outside the top 10% of Harvard and Yale, there is no such thing as international practice.

    2. I think international practice is much broader than the top 10% at Harvard or Yale. Major corporations do a lot of international work and so do their in house counsel. Most of these guys and gals did not go to Harvard or Yale. In fact, many went to law schools that would not be considered even close to the top. Of course, all of the bigger law firms do international work, so their lawyers get the international experience. Some of the lawyers are top 10% at Harvard or Yale, but not many. Most are good students from good or not so good law schools. So a lot of people do get the opportunity to do international work. For most of us, it is some of the time when the matter you are working on has an international aspect.

  12. Dear John,

    I am deeply ashamed that you, my son, spend your time flaming and trolling online. I am ashamed that you have associated our family name forever with this mess. I wish you knew that even though I say I support whatever you do and that I am proud of you, that inside I am so very ashamed and embarrassed by how you are dragging our family through the dirt. But no mother would ever tell her son that.

    I hope you get better soon. I hope I live to see that day.



  13. The only "international" thing that a law degree gets you is a job at the International House of Pancakes.

  14. John, I gave you some helpful advice recently. I see you didn't take it.

    Stop trashing my work. I spent hours on this post, and you've trashed it with your crap.

    I tried to help. I'm still here to help. But you need to show me that you want it.

    I'll delete the filth posted here WHEN and ONLY WHEN you apologize for vandalizing my hard work. I'm actively trying to stop future generations of students become like you. Your efforts here are actively discrediting my work. You're making a fool of me. You're making a fool of us. And I'm sick of it.

    Get a grip.

    I need an apology. I literally spent hours on this post. You've casually trashed it in a drunken rage.

    When you apologize, I'll delete your comments and those directed at you and your family. Until then, it stays. And I hope the other mods back me up on this.

    1. That's fine, Adjunct Coward. Maybe the FBI will be interested to know that you are blackmailing my family?

      If people refuse to post their real names, scamblogging has already failed.

  15. Perhaps it is time to start going to moderated comments.

    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  16. Still waiting...

    (And if that was the real Painter at 6:22PM, you should be ashamed of yourself. Don't bite those who are trying to help you.)

    But yes, I agree with 7:43PM. After recent events here, perhaps moderated comments are the way to go. I'm getting tired of seeing all this hard work from me and the other contributors here going to waste because the comments section turns into a cannibalistic cagefight. Five good comments are worth fifty pieces of trash.

    1. I don't care about "future generations" and how they "end up." I just want someone to pay off MY loans - right now.

  17. Great post makes sense. These comments that are a little off base are also interesting, but your main message appears to have attracted every law school troll factory in america. Keep posting because another point of view adds richness to the education narrative :)

  18. Err some comments are a little gross, I meant the negative comments of nay sayers

  19. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    1. In that case, I will leave the comments up.

      Your last post demonstrates to me that your motiveslie somewhere far from your words. You have no interest in scamblogging and you have no interest in law school reform. You have no place here.

      Your last post also demonstrates that everyone else seems to be right about you. I now believe that you deserve what you're receiving here. You are a bitter, vengeful, miserable man who is more interested in staying that way than changing himself or helping others.

      I'm only sorry that I bothered wasting so much time on you.

    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  20. "Why she [Giorgetti] isn’t at a better school than Richmond is beyond me." She's at Richdumb because the legal educator job market is just as clusterfucked as everything else having to do with law. She's got prestigious degrees, she has real experience, and she's a doll to boot, yet she ended up at TTT Richdumb. What does that tell you lemmings about your chances?

  21. If you want to be involved in international law and are not prestigious (like Sidwell Friends -> Princeton -> Teach for America -> Yale Law School -> Supreme Court Clerkship -> Pd.D at Harvard prestigious) You can still might have a chance to do international law.

    * However you must stay away from law school (You might be able to go to a college that also contains a law school, but that's as close as you can get)
    * You can join the military if you want to, but you should go ROTC, and leave quickly if they won't let you do international law.
    * You need to learn one or two foreign languages, to fluency or near fluency. I would recommend two of French, Spanish, Arabic, Farsi, Chinese, Russian, or Urdu.
    * You need to join the State Department or possibly an intelligence agency.
    * Once you work your way up the ranks you can 'do' international law, or something close to it.

  22. I've got to disagree with Georgetti's purported "beauty." I won't demean her by presenting the numerous facts, but if I want to see beauty, there are much better women in great abundance in my hometown, and even in my neighborhood.

    She has an inordinate fixation on prestige, too. Except for taking the job at Richmond, that is.