Money Quote: "The roughly two-thirds of U.S. students who take out loans to finance their college education can end up in a situation most resembling the historical concept of indenture. In medieval times, peasants would sign deeds to work land, which would then get cut in a jagged line (looking like teeth, or 'dentures'). Each party would get half, and rejoining them would prove the authenticity of the contract. Colonial indentures would trade years of labor for the opportunity of transportation to the New World. The indentured could not alter the terms of the contract, no matter their circumstances. One way or another, the debt would get paid. This is basically how student loans work."
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"Fix bankrupt student loan proposals," by Katrina vanden Heuvel (Washington Post)
Money Quote: "Is it any wonder that Americans grow cynical? Multinational corporations and wealthy investors stash literally trillions abroad to avoid taxes. The big banks rake in trillions in subsidies and discounted loan rates to rescue them from their own excesses. But Congress finds it impossible to make it affordable for the next generation to get advanced education and training."
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Money Quote: "On May 31, 2013, two student loan borrowers who were eligible for the zero-percent interest contractual benefit known as "Michigan Students First" filed a class-action counterclaim against the Michigan Finance Authority (MFA) in federal court....Since January 1, 2003, the Michigan Students First program has reduced student loan interest rates to zero-percent for all borrowers that made thirty-six (36) months of on-time loan payments....In June of 2010, the MFA unilaterally revoked the zero-percent interest rate." Visit http://www.MichiganStudentLoanLawsuit.com for more information.
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Money Quote: "Combined with the record numbers of suicides and otherwise psychologically damaged young adults coming home from America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, being unable to find rewarding work, or work at all, we are witnessing a nation almost literally devouring its own young. The pale of despondency is defining an entire generation, and anti-depressant chemical solutions only further doom it to mediocrity."
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Money Quote: 1. Hard on marriage; 2. Hard on families; 3. Saturated Market; 4. Being a lawyer isn't a get rich quick scheme; 5. Being a lawyer is not glamorous; 6. Being a lawyer is stressful; 7. Law School is way too expensive; 8. Lake of job search assistance; 9. Too competitive; 10. Not for introverts.
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"'I should have gone to law school': Times Square Elmo Fails to Extort $2M from the Girl Scouts," by Elaina Plott (New York Observer)
Money Quote #1: Client: "I should have gone to law school."
Money Quote #2: Defense Attorney: "This case is a case, obviously, involving mental health issues."
These depressing articles about the toxicity of student loans suggest that it might be in order to stage Informal Pickets at a selected law school(s) to coincide with the fabled 1st Week of Fall classes. E.g., "Did you know excessive debt is killing you?" "If you didn't pay cash, you're gonna crash."
ReplyDeleteOr maybe take a page from the 60's and have Occupy Law School where there are teach-ins about this subject. Scared Straight Out of Law School?
"Or maybe take a page from the 60's and have Occupy Law School...."
DeleteOccupy Law School. Now there's turning the tables on 'em.
Maybe we could also get some law professors from the 1960s too; they tended to actually know how to practice law. (Foolishly, the stodgy old guard let in the barbarians, er, New Age professors. Mary Ann Glendon wrote an interesting book, A Nation Under Lawyers: How the Crisis in the Legal Profession Is Transforming American Society, that goes into detail about this decline.)
Thane.
Force the law professors to work for free. They basically think that everything else should be given away for free (or perhaps at cost). Make them put that into practice.
DeleteIf they refuse, put them in prison.
There was a cute note on Top-Law-Schools (which I had, happily, ignored for some time) to the effect that how-dare-you-charge-people-for-this. This was in response to a fairly innocuous post by Cooper, and despite a $2.99 [!] price for the book Con Law. Sigh. I didn't have the patience to re-open my account to post a note to the effect, "And you will be declining your salary when you start your job?"
DeleteMe thinks the game is nearly lost, if supposedly those among the most intelligent we have on tap are this ignorant, ill-informed, and just plain dumb. (Not to mention foul-keyboarded and alarmingly incoherent.) This applies to professors as well, apparently, minus the expletives.
Thane.
Depressing, indeed. There is an interesting history behind the non-discharchability of student debt, which began in 1976 and was toughened in 1990, 1998, and again in 2005. While it's not strictly true that student-loan debt is non-dischargeable, it is nearly so. (The standard is laid out in the Brunner test, from Brunner v. NY State Higher Ed....) Rumor has it there were legion urban legends about graduates walking away from debt, while one account has it that a senior official had done just that, thumbing his nose at Congress. That'll teach 'em.
ReplyDeleteA most interesting analogy to an indenture. The debt-forgiveness programs might seem to lend further credence to this: do what we like and we will release you, bit by bit, from the terms of your "service."
In years past I would casually toss out the option of military service, which of course has grown distant for many Americans, and perhaps for most who attend college. It seems, however, that these are the only students (aside from children of the extremely wealthy) who have any real chance at avoiding massive debt loads. They have the further benefit of maturity, structure, and drive; while many are not in the running for biglaw, nor would they want it. I've known exceptions, but most opt for an administrative law judge position in some leafy suburb.
For anyone contemplating law school (or college or any other graduate school), consider seriously military service. Among other reasons, there are programs (or there used to be) where the branch would provide full tuition benefits, plus full pay (!), to attend law school. Very limited, and very hard to get. But full pay. Zero cost. And you serve a few additional years. Retire in 20, and start a second career as an ALJ. Retire again, and collect multiple, quite generous pensions. And, on a substantive note, the work was often more interesting than most attorneys ever see.
Clearly this is *very* competitive now, in part because (I suspect) much of the benefits go to those already on the inside.
Thane.
^ How DARE you tell us to join the military!
DeleteWe don't want to work! We want money and health care benefits! Moneymoneymoney! Fork it over, so we can stimulate the economy with our spending!!!
There's a difference in joining the military and being commissioned. OCS, West Point, Naval Academy, USAF Academy, etc. They're all very selective. USMA is a math and science institute. Most of my friends who were able to attend did. Additionally, GE, Home Depot, Coke, etc. love West Point graduates (for post separation employment). OCS is highly competitive. On the other hand, enlisting in the military is an entirely different conversation (retiring as a Master Chief after 20 years is still a bit of a struggle).
DeleteMilitary service is also getting more exclusive on the enlistment. It's not exactly a cakewalk for a 28-year old pudgy law grad to get enlisted.
DeleteThe academies are out of the question entirely. If you don't have some connections/backing out of high school, that ship has sailed.
^ If you're 28, the service academies really won't take you. It's actually against their rules.
DeleteIf you already have a college degree, it'd be kind of dumb to spend 4 years getting an additional one.
Anons All: Quite right. The issue for many college graduates, I think, is that military service is so far removed from even a possibility, we seem to have a red-blue distinction as it relates to even the concept of joining the military. (There's some dispute as to the origins of "red"/"blue," but it always struck me that these were exactly wrongly applied: the deep blue is conservative, while the, ah, "red" is not. = : )
DeleteIt's been many years for me (OTS, 1980s), so I'm hardly the right one to comment, but for anyone under 28, getting a guaranteed paycheck, even if it's *not* JAG, is nothing to sneeze at. Moreover, back in the day there were programs where one could enlist at, say, 18, serve in the reserves, then get a scholarship for college, gain a commission, put in additional time for that, and "retire" at 38. If I knew then what I know now . . . .
Presumably these *are* rather selective now, but isn't that law school, too? In short, advice to anyone who could qualify is run, don't walk, to this option. If you can.
And to Anon 10:35, where do we sign up for the free money . . . ? = : )
IBR and public service aside.
ReplyDeleteSomeone commented on ILSS a while back with a basic rule of thumb that said that in order to service the debt in the standard way, the salary coming out of school should be equal to the debt.
Maybe it is all as simple as that.
That's a very widely known rule of thumb. I'm going through Nando's site looking through his reviews of these awful law schools which all seem to charge a minimum of $30k per year. I'm sure a lot of 0Ls have heard of this rule of thumb. How do they justify taking on $100k+ of debt?
DeleteDo they all think they will get into BigLaw? Are they all banking on IBR? Or are they so in love with the (perceived) glamor and prestige of getting a law degree that they are simply *not thinking* about what they are doing?
Are there any solutions to these issues?
ReplyDeleteYou want to hear truly depressing:
ReplyDeleteIt's only the 35-and-under set that are moaning on these "evil scam blogs"
The older boomer lawyers are having problems getting/keeping paying clients and making their bills, too.... but they don't blog. They're pre-blog, pre-'zine, and pre-net, and still believe they're hip because the use "the World Wide Web, and are up-to-date on the Google."
Christ! If the boomers only blogged, the depressing amount of legal news on here would simply shut-down your computer.
I'm 40 and I post here, but I take your point. Some of my ancient(!) friends don't really use the Web.
Delete