A correspondent has provided OTLSS with an email that University of Connecticut Law Dean Timothy Fisher sent to members of the UConn Law School community in order to soften the blow of the school’s decline from 58th to 63rd place in the annual US News rankings. (below)
The email notes that, notwithstanding the rankings hit, there are still many points of pride for those who love UConn Law. For instance, UConn has a well-regarded part-time program. And, unlike most law schools, UConn's LSAT score rose at the 25th percentile, so UConn can boast some comparatively smart dummies. Also, UConn has recently hired a dynamic new leader for its Career Planning Center (someone who is a former partner at the same firm where Dean Fisher and his wife Dina were partners).
The email notes that, notwithstanding the rankings hit, there are still many points of pride for those who love UConn Law. For instance, UConn has a well-regarded part-time program. And, unlike most law schools, UConn's LSAT score rose at the 25th percentile, so UConn can boast some comparatively smart dummies. Also, UConn has recently hired a dynamic new leader for its Career Planning Center (someone who is a former partner at the same firm where Dean Fisher and his wife Dina were partners).
According to Dean Fisher’s email, UConn Law experienced
a significant decline in only one component among the many components that
make up the overall US News ranking— namely, "employment numbers" for its
graduating class. For the UConn Law
graduating class of 2013, 41.2% of the class obtained full-time bar-required non-solo non-school-funded law jobs nine months out, compared to 52.8% of the class of 2012. Indeed, if UConn were ranked solely by
employment score (full-time, bar-required, non-solo, non-school-funded), it would come in 157th place.
But again, a law school’s excellence is made up of many components, which US News itself recognizes by including in its ranking calculation such factors as faculty
compensation and the number of volumes in the law library. And perhaps, as Fisher gently suggests, graduate employment is overemphasized as a component of quality assessment, especially when that single component drags down the ranking of an otherwise excellent cathedral of legal learning like UConn.
The failure of recent graduates to find jobs is something that is happening outside the law school. Should not a law school's quality be judged only on what is happening inside its magnificent Gothic quadrangle, such as scintillating law review articles, symposiums, and moot court competitions? Is UConn Law's granite facade any less majestic, its archways any less pointed, or its windows any less lancet simply because a substantial proportion of its young graduates are contemplating huge debts and ruined lives?
The failure of recent graduates to find jobs is something that is happening outside the law school. Should not a law school's quality be judged only on what is happening inside its magnificent Gothic quadrangle, such as scintillating law review articles, symposiums, and moot court competitions? Is UConn Law's granite facade any less majestic, its archways any less pointed, or its windows any less lancet simply because a substantial proportion of its young graduates are contemplating huge debts and ruined lives?
------------------------
Tuesday,
March 10, 2015 9:45 AM, UConn Law Office of the Dean
<UConnLawCONNECT@law.uconn.edu> wrote:
Dear
Friends:
We
have received this year’s law school rankings from US News and World Report,
which lowered our ranking to 63 among the country’s law schools. I want to
assure you of our continued attention to the real issues on which the rankings
are based. We know that rankings can be volatile and are not the best measure
of a law school's quality. Nonetheless, we are going to use this report as a springboard
for a period of self-reflection – when we can focus on what we do exceptionally
well, and what we are going to do even better.
We
take note that the only significant downward component of our rankings was the
employment numbers for members of the graduating class of 2013. We are looking
into the basis for the change in those figures. There are at the same time
elements of the rankings for which we can be proud. Our overall score rose, we
now have the 6th ranked part time program in the entire country, and the 25th
percentile LSAT score of our current 1L class rose as well. We are pleased that
our recent hire of James Ray, most recently a partner at Robinson & Cole,
as leader of our Career Planning Center will bring innovative and aggressive approaches
to career placement for our students.
The
true value of UConn Law School and the education we provide is realized in our
first-rate students and our first-rate faculty. This is an exciting place to
study and work. We look forward to meeting with creativity and energy the
challenges facing all law schools. As always, we invite input from our alumni
on how we can do even better.
To
all members of the UConn Law School community, I urge you to deepen your
engagement with our school and our students. Your support is vital, and much
appreciated.
Sincerely,
Timothy
Fisher
Dean
and Professor of Law
OT, but important:
ReplyDeleteLooking for a 2010 law graduate, from any law school, who was unable to find employment that required legal training or a J.D. Also any 2010 law grad who wanted a job in a law firm (any size) but could not find one.
The interviews would be on the record unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. Geographic location and age would be required but no other identifying job or personal information is necessary.
This is for a very major publication.
--
Kyle McEntee, Esq.
Executive Director, Law School Transparency
http://www.lawschooltransparency.com
(336) 324 - 0951 | Kyle@lawschooltransparency.com
The dean of You Con just doesn't care about the "significant downward" movement of the proportion of the class that finds relevant (let alone decent) work, except to the extent that this datum might affect You Con's stupid ranking.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the salary of the crony who has just been put in at the "Career Planning Center"?
Old Guy
But wait, it gets better! The previous Dean, the charismatic and business-savvy Jeremy Paul, jumped ship a few years ago after another ratings drop. He managed to leap over to Northeastern, which provides students with twice the cost and half the employment outcomes.
DeleteThe common wisdom here in Connecticut is that after the USNWR ranking tanked Dean Paul was left alone in the drawing room with a revolver. He was at UConn for 23 years; his sudden departure for an even less well-regarded school on short notice and the need to name an interim Dean while they sought a permanent replacement left few doubting what really happened.
DeleteRon Paul, Ron Jeremy, Jeremy Paul...I can't keep them all straight any more.
Delete"We take note that the only significant downward component of our rankings was the employment numbers for members of the graduating class of 2013."
ReplyDeleteLet me put on my "Steve Diamond" hat for a moment...there. Meh, no big deal. On balance, things are looking pretty good for UConn overall, what with all the exciting changes taking place in legal education in general and at UConn in particular. This is just year-to-year variation in rankings due to crass USNWR jockeying. There has never been a better time to invest in legal education!
Now, (drums fingers together), where is that incoming class of 1Ls...?
"...I urge you to deepen your engagement with our school and with our students...."
ReplyDeleteWhy can't law deans write? If you called the law school administration office and said "I'd like to deepen my engagement with a couple of your students," you'd be reported to the police immediately.
Everytime we get to stare into the abyss of a law dean's letter, we are greeted with stomach-churning word choice and wretched grammar. Anyone here at OTLSS could write a much better letter. We've seen classic epistles from Dean Satan (LSTC).
But, aside from a prose style that could knock a buzzard off a shit wagon, the dean fails to do the one goddam constructive thing he could actually do, i.e., ask if anyone could consider employing a recent UConn law school student graduate. Instead, he makes this circumlocutious engagement-deepening money-beg. Money for the law school is not the problem. If employment is the issue, then specifically ask your alums to hire a Uconn graduate (or possibly a 3L), and further ask them what the law school can do to make it happen.
More of these law deans need to attend Dean Satan's CLE courses.
DeleteCome Learn Extortion?
DeleteOne doesn't simply "learn" extortion. One feels it in their veins, like The Force.
DeleteDean Satan's Continuing Legal Education courses - "No Means Yes (When It Comes to JD Admissions)" "All Aboard the Good Ship Scholarship" and "Law Dean as Wordsmith: Forging Your Inner Lyrical Genius" - are available for the bargain price of $499 a credit hour.
And of course, Unleashing Your Inner Dean Satan or Taking the 'P' out of 'Law School Pimp."
DeleteThese law school scumbags really do put all their energy into thinking about their rankings. I suspect it's partly to hide the uncomfortable truth that they have gotten fat and lazy off the backs of debt slaves.
ReplyDeleteMy TTT dropped about 10 places in 2006 when I was a 2L. I overheard a conversation between faculty members about a professor quitting because he was ashamed that the school had fallen. But when you're ranked 60 and you drop to 70, who cares?
Law professors truely are despicable. They're not even up to the level of the pond scum that grows in my back yard.
And who cares what a law professor has to say about Con law (for example) if they're not at a T14?
DeleteIndeed, quite apart from the very worthlessness of the rankings, a fall from 60 to 70 is insignificant. For that matter, a fall from 25 to 175 wouldn't mean much either. I shall explain why in an upcoming article.
DeleteOld Guy
Are solo's not considered employed?
ReplyDeleteWife of 40 year solo attorney....we are most happy with his choice then and now. He is mentoring a newly graduated attorney with the idea that if it works out, he will gradually transition to less than full-time (maybe even retire!) and the practice will continue.
The job market is glutted at the moment. A young solo would have to start with a huge pile of debt, somehow distinguish themselves from established practitioners, and do so enough to actually make a living. CT is a small state; junior solos are going to have to compete with the established ambulance chasers, who have extensive advertising campaigns and can snatch up the lucrative cases. If there's a new solo from UConn making a salary that wouldn't appall a TSA screener, I haven't met them.
DeleteI agree with most of the postings here - it just seems that soloing is never considered as an option or apparently worth tracking per the post above.
DeleteI admit I didn't hold out much hope for finding someone interested in coming to our rural area with the possibility of taking over the law practice someday - but it proved surprisingly easy. The current glut of graduates and the sorry legal job market is likely the reason.
@9:32, that part about forty years is the beginning and end of the story. I know plenty of people who started out 40 years or so ago who can hold their own, although they are all cutting back on expenses and taking just about any piece of crap that comes through the door. No one with six figures of debt is going to be able to make it as a solo in this state. Fees have barely budged in 20 years. Real estate lawyers are cruising the criminal courts offering bargain-basement felony defense services. As in California the Connecticut public sector unions have gotten control of the state legislature and they are taxing anything that moves. As a consequence, Connecticut's population is barely growing as more and more people flee the state.
DeleteAnd note that the recent graduate your husband is mentoring is going to take over his practice, not build a book of business from the ground up. As I have commented before here and on ITLSS it's like selling wedding dresses. There are only so many weddings and so many files. Anyone getting into either business must take market share from someone who is already in it. What we have here is a constant bubble of newly minted solos who eventually go under but while they last keep bidding the rates down in a desperate effort to attract clients.
It was a whole other world 40 years ago. Hell, it was a whole other world just 10 years ago. A law degree, even from a tier 2 school, was worth something back then.
DeleteI'm willing to go to a rural area and take over the law practice—if there really is a law practice. I come from a rural area myself and certainly have nothing against moving back to one.
DeleteOld Guy
"As in California the Connecticut public sector unions have gotten control of the state legislature and they are taxing anything that moves. As a consequence, Connecticut's population is barely growing as more and more people flee the state."
DeleteAt the risk of derailing the thread, this is incorrect; in addition, California has pretty good economic growth.
-Barry
Connecticut doesn't, and if you go to the web site of the CT State Elections Enforcement Commission and read campaign finance reports you'll see where the campaign money is coming from. Thus we are building a $570,000,000.00 9.4 mile busway ($957.04 per inch) that no one is going to use but which has provided a fine living for union construction workers.
Delete"We take note that the only significant downward component of our rankings was the employment numbers for members of the graduating class of 2013."
ReplyDeleteThis is like the President saying "oh, the only reason my approval rating is dropping is because we're in a major depression and Russia just declared war on us."
"We are looking into the basis for the change in those figures."
Were you not already? It's not like this is news.
"To all members of the UConn Law School community, I urge you to deepen your engagement with our school and our students."
Alumni seeking jobs? Fuck 'em! We need fresh blood in here!
The day of reckoning for law schools is coming. This article is about a for-profit school, but we can see the corollary to LS.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/03/16/my-for-profit-university-folded-im-not-paying-back-my-student-loans/
OT- this site recommends strategic default on Private Student loans and explains why some of them may well be dischargeable. Good article.https://getoutofdebt.org/63127/top-10-reasons-stop-paying-unaffordable-private-student-loan
ReplyDeleteIsn't a debt incurred by fraud unenforceable in the courts?
DeleteWell...their part time program is in 6th place. Geez....nothing impresses you people!
ReplyDeletePlus they have a beautiful retro-gothic quadrangle. They're also located in Hartford, near a number of insurance companies. Not to mention that their graduates can't find legal employment.
DeleteWith all the insurance companies out there, Hartford just must be rife with JD-Advantage opportunities...!!!
DeleteWait, the insurance companies have heard that one before? You mean they don't buy it? Get those LawDeans on the phone, stat! I'm sure they can made the case on behalf of their struggling graduates...
In the 1960's and 70's The Hartford, CIGNA and Aetna all built large suburban office campuses because they had outgrown their facilities in Hartford. All have now been closed. Aetna's was razed because they couldn't find a buyer or tenant and the taxes were killing them. The Hartford and Aetna have also closed facilities in the city. However many JD and JD advantage jobs there are there aren't as many as their used to be.
DeleteConnecticut has a limited number of law jobs. Not enough law jobs to support both UConn and Quinnipiac Law Schools. Too many law schools and too many law students relative to the number of jobs in Connecticut. There is not a market for most of their students, save the top 10% at UConn, outside Connecticut.
ReplyDeleteYale is enough for Connecticut. And Rhode Island. And Vermont. And New Hampshire. And Maine.
DeleteOld Guy
In better economic times, most Yalies wouldn't have stooped to working at even the "large" Connecticut firms. Scuttlebutt is that they now are applying to the Hartford and Stamford jobs, which leaves UCONN in the lurch (to say nothing of shrinking summer associate classes at these firms).
DeleteI'll tell you why that wouldn't work, Old Guy. Those states do need some new lawyers, a fraction of what they now produce. But most people who would like to practice in those states can't get into Yale.
DeletePeople with money are fleeing Connecticut because of the taxes... but think about all those poor, underserved clients left behind!
DeleteAnother excellent post from the team. You guys tell it like it is.
ReplyDeleteThat 41.2% employment rate--and its accompanying ranking of 157--are absolutely devastating to the credibility of UConn Law School. All academic pretensions aside, they're doing a truly horrible job of identifying and training future lawyers.
Charleston School of Law offers faculty buyouts:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150317/PC16/150319393/1177/charleston-school-of-law-offers-buy-outs-to-faculty-members
"Students’ initial reaction is concern. We love our faculty and don’t want to see anything happen to them,” she said."
DeleteReporters are always directed by administrators to that one student who is really sure his or her fellatio skills are going to pay off. *Slurp, slurp.* Nope, the deluded lemming still will not get a job with a Charleston law degree, including a job sucking dick.
What have "our faculty" been doing to help the mooncalves of ¢harle$ton $¢hool of Infilaw to find jobs of whatsoever sort?
DeleteOld Guy
Credited. I'm sure Crooklyn loved Mr. Infinity for the exact same reasons.
DeleteThis is the law school version of Stockholm Syndrome.
DeleteI love how the scumbags pulled $25 million in profit from taxpayers money from federal loans and nobody went to jail. Nice how us lawyers are supposed to act "ethically" when the entire industry is run by criminals.
ReplyDeleteThis is the bottom line for all of us. Technology is killing many legal jobs, just like it is or will kill many healthcare jobs. You don't need to go to a lawyer for advice or to prepare a will when you can go online and find it or find an app that will do it, and you don't need to go to a doctor to diagnose a condition when you can go online . . although you may need a doctor to give you the written prescription to get the drug you need.. To me that means that only certain specialized practitioners will be necessary in the future. Nobody will ever replace the "trial lawyer" until robots can learn the rules of evidence and present a case to a jury, and nobody is ever going to replace a surgeon until a robot can perform surgery unattended. But lots of people in the "advice" giving business, no matter what the profession, are going to go by the wayside. I would rather feed my symptoms and medical history into a computer and have it spit out my likely diagnosis after it reads its memory filled with millions of case studies, rather than rely on an oftentimes fallible doctor. And who needs a lawyer to tell me the law any more? Half of the managerial jobs out there, the advice jobs, the professions are going to go by the way side. Its not a legal phenomenon. Its a technology phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteYou are incorrect about self-diagnosis. We didn't take my son to the Dr. because we thought it was a cold. He is there now being tested for pneumonia. What you will see happening is PA's and APRN's replacing PCP's and just sending the serious stuff on to the MD's.
DeleteRight, but most doctors will NOT test for pneumonia for what appears to be the typical cold unless the symptoms get very bad. Obviously doctors will still have a role to play in the future, but not for the everyday stuff which most of them deal with now. And the more you can keep people away from the cutters, like Orthopedic surgeons, the better off most people will be.
DeleteThe folks who have it made are the CPAs. Even with software like turbo tax many people who could easily do their own taxes are so intimidated by they process and the IRS that they will pay good money to have them done for them.
DeleteI agree with 8:25AM, especially about the advice-dispensing professions. It used to be that every town/neighborhood had a lawyer, pharmacist, travel agent, realtor, etc. who were useful because they knew things that the average person did not. People went to these professionals for advice in their respective areas of expertise. Now, most of that information is available online at low or no cost. Sure, you need a few people who understand the travel industry to run priceline and expedia, but you don't need a travel agent in every neighborhood. Same for the other professions, including (or especially) lawyers.
DeleteTravel advice....OK. Not so fast with saying "especially" lawyers. Our office has done a lot of billable work as a direct result of people thinking they can save a few bucks by writing their own contracts or downloading forms off the internet....only to find out they hadn't considered many issues that then come back to bite them in the butt. They saved a couple hundred dollars by not having a lawyer draft the contract in the first place. They end up spending thousands to save their home or business which they put in jeopardy by writing their own agreement. There's truth to the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
ReplyDeleteI was a part-time probate judge for 16 years. The best part of the job was when I got to say "I'm not here to shill for the legal profession, but I will tell you that a lawyer's bill for a simple will would have cost a lot less out of your inheritance than the bond that the do-it-yourself kit didn't tell your deceased loved one to waive for the executor."
Delete