John Marshall To Look For New Dean
Money Quote: “Our graduates have a history of going to small firms, DAs and public
defenders’ offices. We don’t have the employment swings that big law
schools have because their graduates are focused on more elite firms,”
Lynn said.
Money Quote: "He starts off by arguing that law schools are not producing more graduates than ever before, even as he concedes
that law schools are in fact producing more graduates than ever before
in absolute numbers. But, because there are more “people” in the United
States and a higher percentage of those people are going to college, he
concludes that law schools are producing a lower percentage of
graduates, relative to the number of people involved in higher
education."
On that John Marshall article
ReplyDeleteBefore it was acquired by Michael Markovitz in 2001, the school relied heavily on adjunct professors to teach classes, which had been a sticking point with the ABA.
Why would the ABA care? Relying heavily on adjunct professors looks like a good way to cut costs. Unless they have very good justification for this, it looks awfully like they are merely looking out for the interests of law professors.
A full 88 percent of 2012 graduates reported securing jobs upon graduation
I seriously doubt if any law school which is reviewed in Nando's site can claim a genuine 88% employment rate.
The entire system is rigged from the top to the bottom, from the bottom to the top. If you are an average person, of humble means, just accept it you are screwed. I am not saying that you should not be ambitious, but the fact is that we are all disposable human resources. In the old days they used to have a personnel department, but now it is the human resource department. The whole law school scam is just one bacterium in the diseased organ of higher education, and in fact the system as a whole.
DeleteTough for accountants too, huh? I actually worked tax prep at Jackson Hewitt and there was a CPA there. I couldn't believe it. Guy was making 12/hour (same as me, no credentials in tax) and had a CPA. I kept thinking, why don't you at least get a bookkeeping job. This is bottom of the barrel stuff.
DeleteBecome a lawyer so that you, too, can be upside down in your personal life.
DeleteThe title of 'lawyer' lost its real earning power years ago. I understand the title has great historical associations and that in the public's mind, it's a mark of "a professional."
Kinda like a title of nobility in a European country that's now a republic, it still has some luster even if the holder ain't calling the political shots.
It would be understandable if the degree cost $20,000 to obtain... but at these prices, the luster (?) ain't worth the loot.
Close 75 law schools today and save thousands from a lost life. And class of 2016, WAKE THE HELL UP! Why don't you pay $100,000 to attend Baroness school?
The facts about John Marshall Law School (Atlanta) would embarrass its namesake.
ReplyDelete1. In a state with five law schools, JMLS(ATL) graduates have by far the most dismal employment prospects.
2. Tuition = $34K / year
3. Only 77 / 177 (43.5%) graduates obtained full-time legal employment last year. The majority of students are evidently not finding the small law jobs the school is designed for.
4. Despite being in a large city with big firms, only five graduates found jobs in big firms. By comparison, 18 grads reported being unemployed.
Indiana Tech of the South, it sounds like. JMLS expanding from Chicago sounds prestigious, though, as though there is market support for new lawyers. The reality is more like Cooley, and it's a shame these schools move into new markets in order to snag unsuspecting marks.
DeleteThe low-hanging fruit has already been picked, so spread to a new area and try to edge out the competition. Good idea if you're actually building a better mousetrap; bad idea (for the students) if you are merely sucking the life out of students.
Every time I hear the words "JMLS" and "Chicago" in a sentence together I throw up a little in my mouth.
DeleteJMLS Chicago was the lowest toilet in the city. Even us knuckledragging Toileteers at Kent, Depaul, Loyola, etc looked down upon JMLS. So that's really saying something.
"That’s true, but also utterly meaningless. Who cares if there are fewer law grads per English majors per capita? If there aren’t more LAW JOBS per law grad, then we have an oversupply problem. This is a classic tactic by law professors, to use a statistic that has nothing to do with what anybody is talking about as if it proves something."
ReplyDeleteI would surmise that in the mind of the learned professor the idea is that so long as the ratio of lawyers to the population decreases faster than the ongoing decrease in legal work that needs to get done the system will eventually take up the slack. But of course, this is cherry picking an abstract concept out of an exponentially more complex narrative to keep the learned professor from having to hustle clients in the traffic court elevators.
It will require decades to take up the slack, and hundreds of thousands of lives will be ruined during those decades. The slack could be taken up much more quickly if graduations from law schools decreased by 60% beginning next year, and the learned professor knows that. But of course 60% of law professors are not going to fit into the elevators at traffic court.
"But of course 60% of law professors are not going to fit into the elevators at traffic court."
DeleteIt would be fun to see them forced to try, though...
Just read that article on John Marshall school. Reading between the lines, you can see it was originally a small humble night school with low bar passage rate, mostly taught by cheap part time adjunct faculty. But at least it was probably cheap.
ReplyDeleteNow its a glitzy, bloated mostly day school with lots more full time professors pumping out scholarshit. The bar passage rate is a bit better but the employment prospects are probably even worse. And of course its now far more expensive.
But look at this line:
Under his tenure, applications have increased markedly and admissions have become far more selective.
There is ultimately a reason why spending is so out of control, its because up until now at least spending on flashy new buildings and prestigious professors actually works at attracting students. Because many students are pretty dumb apparently.
You are right. Back in the day John Marshall was a cheap school where people with jobs and families could go part time at night, get a law degree, and (at that time) have a good shot at a small firm or government job or making it as a solo practitioner. It was the least prestigious law school in the state but if you were a solo or small firm lawyer that didn't matter. Of course at the time the lawyer market was not glutted, job opportunities were much better, and if it didn't work out you hadn't spent a whole lot of money. Now all of that has changed.
DeleteThis is a problem with all of higher education. There used to be many undergraduate schools that were night schools for the working class and had no aspirations at being national or world-class institutions. Then the boomers got hold of them, and didn't stop to ask whether the community would be hurt by losing an avenue for social mobility.
DeleteIt's ironic because many of the powerful alumni donating millions to fund the school's new mission would never have been able to afford the school if it was priced like it is now.
Credited. I went to land-grant State U for undergrad, and my jaw dropped at the difference between the early 90s then and the early 20-teens now when it comes to tuition. I don't see how I can afford my alma mater when it comes to my daughter's education some ten years from now. Who wants to sign their kid up for a lifetime of debt serfdom? Fool me once, shame on me...
DeleteSomehow, I missed out on that go-to-college-when-it's-cheap-and-make-millions-later bandwagon. Par for the course for Gen-X and later, it seems. And don't even get me started on my oh-so-versatile JD.
Not that anybody cares but in fact John Marshall Atlanta's admission standards didn't become more selective during Lynn's tenure (they actually declined slightly).
DeleteJournalism, how does one do that?
http://law.uark.edu/directory/?user=sheppard
ReplyDeleteThis academic hustler is proof that while lawyers allegedly suck at math, some "law professors" are retarded when it comes to simple arithmetic.
Big deal if the American population has grown. Most of the growth is from illegal immigrants who are broke anyhow and cannot afford a lawyer and will use Spanish Speaking legal aid. I cannot believe these law professors would argue the population grew as though this growing population consists of middle class Americans who are banging on lawyers doors to create an expensive estate plan for their children's future. See the YouTube video called "300 Mexicans" and that is the population growth.
ReplyDeleteOne of the biggest myths out there is that some flunkie from a T3 or T4 shitpile can walk into a DA or public defender job. In large municipalities, you need top notch qualifications or JFK Jr. type connections (or both) to land these jobs. Even smaller offices are very selective in their hiring given the massive oversupply of JD degrees over the past 20 years.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in law school 30 years ago that myth was in large part reality, other than the part about just walking into the office. In Chicago back then the state's attorneys were hired purely on political connections, and what kind of cases you worked on (traffic tickets v. murders) was a function on the relative power of your connection. But they almost all came out of the local TTTs. There were politically wired people at Northwestern and U of Chicago, but they went to biglaw for big bucks. I left Illinois 20+ years ago, but I would imagine that now those jobs are looking good to people from the local T13s who have friends in the right places.
ReplyDelete