News Roundup: Law schools refusing to confront reality

Law school leaders are dividing into two camps: stuck v. serious
Money Quote: “This is not a P.R. problem, as the stuck would suggest; it is a reality problem—lawyers have not kept pace with modern demands to improve value, and dynamic young people see more attractive career opportunities in other fields.”

New law school graduate debt figures
Money Quote: “The schools that didn’t report were mostly places that would be shut down instantly if the federal government could bestir itself to apply even the most minimal regulatory controls to the money it shovels into law school coffers”

Law schools don't help the poor get rich — they help the rich stay rich
Money Quote: “America’s massively lengthy, expensive, and complex legal licensing regime is bad for most people (both clients and would-be lawyers).”

Is Rob Illig Worth A Million Dollars?

A few weeks ago, several emails from University of Oregon professor Rob Illig, characterized by at least one source as "wild rants", went public. In one of his emails, Illig made the following claim:

"I feel that having given up the chance at a seven-figure annual income is charity enough for the students..."

There are two issues that cast doubt on Illig's claims. First, he assumes that he would have been an equity partner. Second, the timing of his exit from Biglaw is curious. Let's see if the numbers support Illig's claim.

Mr. Illig graduated from Vanderbilt Law School (which he attended for free!) in 1996. He immediately went to work for Nixon Peabody in New York City and remained there until 2003. Per Paul Campos, the going rate for a first year associate in 1997 at a New York City Biglaw firm was $116,000. So let's assume that was Illig's starting salary. I reviewed a 2012 study by recruiting firm Major, Lindsey and Africa. It states that equity partners in New York City firms received an average of $896,000, while non-equity partners made $338,000 on average. Corporate partners made an average of $847,000. Since Illig is a securities law professor, I am assuming that he fits here.

The timing of Illig's departure from Nixon Peabody indicates that he was not going to become an equity partner. Equity partnership is increasingly reserved for the very few. Instead, non equity partners are added to maintain long tenured employees' sense of career progression. It comes with a bump in pay, but not to the levels Illig claims he would have reached. According to the earlier referenced study, non equity partners made an average of $335,000 in 2012. This is still a significant amount of money, but nowhere near what an equity partner makes. I have no way to know if Illig had the book of business and/or the "superstar" status to warrant being made an equity partner. Biglaw makes it clear to associates starting in their sixth or seventh year at the firm whether they will make partner. At that point, the individual is either expected to leave the firm or continue on an explicit non-partnership track. Given the obsession with status and prestige in law, amplified in Biglaw, many choose to leave. The fact that Illig left after seven years at Nixon to take a position at the University of Missouri does not speak well of his prospects to become an equity partner at Nixon.

Illig is the textbook law professor. He does not seem like the kind of person who would be able to sit by and watch others who came to Nixon at the same time or after he did make a lot more money and enjoy much higher status than him. At Oregon, he is a big fish in a small pond. He has a salary that enables him to live comfortably, and works less than ten percent as much as he would have at Nixon. There are legions of sychophantic students hanging on his every word. It's a good life, and not one he would enjoy as a lawyer. Never mind that he makes his money off the backs of students who will flounder for the rest of their lives. Illig can get a chosen few jobs at Nike. But by sending this email, Illig reveals how a great number of law professors view students: annoyances who must be tolerated so that the professor can live comfortaby and enjoy many creature comforts their students will never experience.

Patience

Given the overwhelming list of reasons not to go to law school (including, but in no way limited to: few jobs, high unemployment, outrageous cost, lost time, incompetent and unqualified faculty, irrelevant teaching, low career satisfaction, zero “prestige” and respect, low pay, etc.), it still amazes and frustrates me that so many people continue to blindly enroll in law school – and throw away their lives – year after year after year.

So today, let’s try a different tactic. I’m going to suggest that if you’re reading this and you’re dead set on attending law school – yes, I know you’re different from everyone else and you’re certain to succeed – then go ahead and attend.

Just not this year.

Jim Saska has an excellent article on Slate right now, entitled “You Can Do Anything With a Law Degree.” Well worth reading. Saska quotes Casey Berman (whose “Leave Law Behind” blog I’ve added to the links on this site – see the RHS of the page):

Berman believes that more college kids should focus on finding their “unique genius.” (“I know it sounds really California new age-y,” he says, adding, “what can I say, I went to Berkeley.”) If you find that specialized skillset outside of law, there’s no reason to get a J.D. “If I had the patience at 22 [for self-reflection], I wouldn’t have gone to law school,” he says.

One word stands out: patience.

Nobody needs to attend law school this year. Have a little patience. Even if your heart is set on law school and you’ve dreamed about being a lawyer ever since you were small, have a little patience. Law school will be there for you this time next year. You won’t look like the dummy who was held back a year – it’s not a race to see who can graduate the quickest and be the youngest qualified lawyer.

Once you graduate from law school, as many have pointed out, you’re pretty much locked into a career. Your debt will be so high and your qualifications so narrow that you can’t do much else other than hammer the pavement looking for some kind of job related to law. That, or eat the lost three years and the student debt and move on with your life, crippled financially and with your resume branded with one of the most useless and despised qualifications you could have obtained.

Particularly this year, with the legal education system and the economy still in turmoil, have a little patience. Sit it out, see where the dust settles. Try that other path in life – you know, the one you really dream of taking, but don’t have the courage or self-confidence to pursue. The one you think is kinda dumb and unrealistic. Stand up to your parents or whoever is pushing you into a JD. It’s just for one year. And it’s the last year you’ll be able to do this, because once you get that JD, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll ever have the freedom to pursue something you’ve always wanted to try.

And if all else fails during that year off, at least you tried. And then you can go to law school refreshed, happy in the knowledge that you’ve scratched something off your “things to do in life” list; one less regret. Law schools will still be around, and I promise they’ll still be more than happy – maybe even desperate – to take your money.

And you never know, you might find that your year off turns into the career you really wanted, rather than the one you’ve been told you should want.

News Roundup: "We're Not Going Back To 2006"

Legal Jobs Picture: 'We're Not Going Back to 2006'
Money Quote:”Nearly 9 percent of associates at U.S. law firms were laid off in 2009 and some of them are still trying to make their ways back into fulltime law firm work.”

Bright Spots Amid Glum Jobs Outlook
Money Quote: “Law school enrollment was nearly 40,000 in the most recent year. The current entry-level legal market cannot support such large classes.”

Three Florida Law Schools Make Top Ten for Grads With Most Debt
Money Quote: “According to Elio Martinez Jr., a lawyer representing the students, the Florida Coastal grads are upset because they took on upward of $200,000 in loans under the mistaken assumption — propagated by Florida Coastal — that after they graduated, they would quickly gain employment in the legal profession.”

"Can You Give Some Quick Advice On Something?"

Being a lawyer was a universally horrible experience for me. Besides not understanding the fact that lawyers are paid for their time, lay people don't understand that being a lawyer does not mean that I want to give you advice on whatever petty problem you are having. The moment I told someone I was a lawyer, I often heard the nine words that I still despise to this day: "Can you give me some quick advice on something?" A lot of these people were friends of my parents. So, when I eventually started telling them to schedule an appointment to see me (for a fee, of course), they would inevitably tell my mom how rude I had been to them. "Why couldn't MA just give me some basic advice?" they asked her.  "Why is MA so focused on money?" they would say. My mom, not understanding why I couldn't just help her friends, would also give me the 3rd degree once she heard about what happened.

The worst occurrence of "give me some quick advice" was on an occasion when I decided to go to my parents' place for lunch after a long day at the office.  As I sat down with my plate, my mom rushed over and thrust the phone in my hand.  She silently said, "Just talk to him.  It's my friend's husband!" So after spending a whole day at the office, I was forced to listen to a man rant and rave about how he was unfairly terminated in a state where I was not licensed to practice. To get him off the phone, I explained the process to file his complaint with the EEOC. But, the man kept pushing me to tell him what state remedies he had.  I finally told him to go hire an attorney in that state and leave me alone to eat dinner.

Law school is terrible, but the pain doesn't stop once you've been sworn in. People all around you who have no appreciation for the fact that lawyers get paid for their time can't fathom why you can't be a pal and tell them exactly what to do so that they can turn their misfortune into a windfall or at the very least, get revenge on those who have wronged them.  Law school will ruin you financially, but will also greatly affect your social life. It is not for you unless you're one of those people who loves talking about the law every moment of every day and don't mind working for free after hours.  I just know that I couldn't do it.

"JD Advantage," Briefly Reconsidered

 

 

Long-time readers of OTLSS know that I am not a fan of the "JD-Advantage" claim that is often spouted by the increasingly-desperate Law School Cartel.  In fact, I find many of the so-called advantages of a JD, outside of straight-up legal practice, to be riddled with half-truths, conveniently ignored caveats, and full of information asymmetry.  And, of course, this blog and others regularly warn about the fact that a JD is not so great for actual legal practice these days, either.

 

Neither am I a fan of what I call the "not-JD" varietals that seem to be popping up.  This is "anything for a buck," as far as I'm concerned.

 

However, to be fair, I'm grounded in the scamblog movement and so my bias is, um, fairly high, these nine years out of law school at 40-something-something years old, with miles to go before I pay off my student loans.  I did come across this comment by onehell over at JDUnderground, though, and I think it bears repeating:

 

 

My experience has been that the JD actually IS an advantage in a lot of jobs, and is pretty quickly recognized as such. BUT, what it does NOT do is open the door to those jobs. The JD is neither necessary nor sufficient; you need to demonstrate experience and interest independent of it.

But once you're actually working, I have found that having the JD often results in moving up pretty quickly. People respect you more, they like the way you can write and clearly explain things, they really do respect the credential if you carry yourself like you know what you're doing. But again, it absolutely does not get your foot in the door. But once your foot is already in the door, it opens up a lot of opportunities to move up and around. For that reason, I say that for people with an existing connection, the JD can really be an advantage and give the employer an excuse they already were looking for to move you up or whatever. But yeah, don't go to law school thinking that it alone is a qualification that will open the door to a JD advantage job.

Applying to a JD advantage job with no connections and no experience, the JD can actually work against you for all the usual reasons (being seen as a flight risk or "just a failed lawyer", etc.) But once you're IN, then it really is an asset I have to admit.

Well said.  Friends, there are a lot of ways to demonstrate good analytical skills, good communication skills, and all-around smarts that don't require a graduate-school investment of $200k.  Do not buy the Cartel line of "a JD opens doors," as the Cartel is counting on you to mentally add "right after graduation" to that statement.   It, in fact, does not, and you will get many, many quizzical looks and doors slammed in your face, trust me.

 

When I finally did land a job, through connections, my JD was viewed as a valuable* asset.  To be honest, it was only a justification to hire that was one of many, including my prior STEM degrees and job experience.  The heavens did not part and the JD did not lift me to higher realms all on its own, to the "surprise" of many a ScamDean and their glossy brochures, I'm sure. 

 

By the way, Simkovic & McIntyre, from my personal perspective your paper is bunk, once you factor in the severe costs of law school.  Trust me, I know, because (1) I'm a grown-up, with a family, a mortgage, and other real life responsibilities, and (2) I had a real STEM career prior to law school, thanks.  Shame on you guys for helping scam kids straight out of college, let alone people like me who should have known better than to trust the Ivory Tower.  

 

(Yeah, yeah, anecdotes are not data, I've said that myself while looking at Monte Carlo simulations.  But it is also mathematically impossible for all of us to go to Harvard and land cushy LawProf gigs, for that matter.)

 

So, 0Ls, non-trads, heed these warnings.    A JD can "help" you land a non-lawyer job - if many, many things are already in place first.  DO NOT go to law school thinking a JD will do something for you on Day One in its own right, just about the time when Sallie Mae comes knocking.  I made this mistake, and this fact is one of the places where the Cartel lies the most to prospective lemmings.  This is tragic, because the current asking price for a JD is just to much to bear for the mere mortals of the 99%. 

 

But those who live in the Ivory Tower "bubble" repeatedly ignore this fact, as that cuts into (non) profits, you see.

 

 

 

 

*  Sort of.  Not to the tune of $100k+ back in the early 2000s, and costs have only gotten worse since then. 

Georgetown Law Class of 2014 grads get big money job offer, no paperwork required.

Times may be tough for recent law grads generally, but not for those whose JD diplomas glitter with lower T14 prestige. Graduate with a law degree from super-prestigious Georgetown and you will be deluged with lucrative job offers, such as the one that a correspondent has shared with OTLSS, and which is reposted below.

After spending $228,000 on three years of law school and living expenses-- that is, without factoring in interest on student loans-- Georgetown Law grads are assured of the following economic return: $3,000 per quarter for up to one year, courtesy of their very own scama mater.  That, of course, adds up to $12,000-- about half of what Georgetown itself estimates as the cost-of-living for a year in DC. Yes, these are the vaunted law school funded positions, which Georgetown calls its "Entry into Practice Program," or "EIP." All the fortunate grad has to do is volunteer 25-40 hours per week somewhere, and also meet quarterly with his or her career services benefactors for mock job interviews and other such tasks designed to make useless law school functionaries feel important.

Note the interesting phrase in paragraph four--"No paperwork is required from host organizations." Why not, one may wonder? Should not the law school, as a matter of quality control and as part of its professional mission, gather sufficient information to assure itself that the host organization is providing grads with useful training and professional contacts, as well as a realistic possibility of paying employment when the stipend money runs dry?  Because a cynic might claim that these law school funded positions are not really meant to provide "entry into practice," but simply to artificially boost nine-months-out employment statistics and provide good PR for the school. 

Oh, and a cynic might ask one more thing: With "no paperwork...required from host organizations," how is one to trust the information that Georgetown provided to the ABA survey that 76 out of the 83 law school funded positions held by graduates of the Class of 2013 nine months out were in "bar passage required positions"?