tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post9075922303981042597..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Do They Deserve Gold Stars or Red Flags? Which Law Schools are Promulgating Questionable Claims of Placement Success? Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-59218181257852696492014-08-23T08:00:14.741-06:002014-08-23T08:00:14.741-06:00Agreed. These institutions are run by licensed pro...Agreed. These institutions are run by licensed professionals sworn to uphold the law, who are rigorous in their self-policingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46041855477420187812014-08-22T02:05:10.697-06:002014-08-22T02:05:10.697-06:00Set up a facebook group or just contact these peop...Set up a facebook group or just contact these people. Get enough of your class to sign an open letter saying the school's employment statistic is a lie.<br /><br />Send this open letter to the Above The Law blog. If you have +35% of your class signing and saying the 65% employment number was a lie at the 9-month mark, then your letter will be a significant thing. It will not only attract negative attention to your school. It might start an ABA investigation into the school that uncovers something. Other schools might be investigated too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-56030397656879134802014-08-21T14:20:49.583-06:002014-08-21T14:20:49.583-06:007:21 AM above fails to recognize that lawyers who ...7:21 AM above fails to recognize that lawyers who are working in their professional capacity do not fall under the FLSA - at all. (Same is true for doctors, but then you never hear about a doctor being asked to work for less than minimum wage.)<br /><br />In any event, you can pay a lawyer $12K for a full year's worth of work. This has been thrashed out many times here and at ITLSS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-28947873963434500332014-08-20T21:39:59.434-06:002014-08-20T21:39:59.434-06:00I graduated in 2013. By the end of law school, I ...I graduated in 2013. By the end of law school, I knew most people in my class. I knew only a handful - and I do mean a HANDFUL of people with jobs lined up. My law school claims to have 9-month employment in excess of 65% of JD-required, full-time, bar-passage-required. <br /><br />Putting it mildly, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that is anywhere close to true. I think it's an out and out fraud.<br /><br />In 9 months I knew only people who had LOST their law firm jobs to layoffs, and did not know of even 1 person becoming employed who hadn't been at graduation. <br /><br />The only way these figures get audited is if someone sues. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46632652438792593712014-08-20T17:32:33.094-06:002014-08-20T17:32:33.094-06:00Audits are for distrustful losers.Audits are for distrustful losers.Law School Truth Centerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166092871374037640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42045421787777899962014-08-20T15:51:25.684-06:002014-08-20T15:51:25.684-06:00I wouldn't hire some dumb bozo even if there w...I wouldn't hire some dumb bozo even if there were a shortage of lawyers.<br /><br />Old Guy<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17156024551208968922014-08-20T13:05:43.345-06:002014-08-20T13:05:43.345-06:00They won't be able to afford internet access t...They won't be able to afford internet access three years from now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29302861146013624472014-08-20T12:56:40.329-06:002014-08-20T12:56:40.329-06:00The law schools are still lying. The reforms have ...The law schools are still lying. The reforms have simply forced law schools to become a little more creative in their lies. Fortunately (for them), law schools are run by creative liars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-1794739074625583482014-08-20T10:38:39.142-06:002014-08-20T10:38:39.142-06:00Agreed you look at yesterdays law lemmings and you...Agreed you look at yesterdays law lemmings and you see these poor kids who have just started at Charleston Law. Their GPS and LSAT scores just about put them near the bottom of all test takers. Looks like a lot of minorities entered as well. These people are screwed beyond belief.. You know I try to warn them and they think it is a personal attack. Can't wait to see their tweets 3 years from now..LawDadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-71358447069310667572014-08-20T08:21:26.592-06:002014-08-20T08:21:26.592-06:00In order to be exempt from the hourly minimum wage...In order to be exempt from the hourly minimum wage, the worker must, among other things, have a salary of at least $23,600 per year. http://labor-employment-law.lawyers.com/wage-and-hour-law/am-i-an-exempt-employee-or-nonexempt-employee.html So it is true that, if a lawyer gets a salary of $23,600, a lawyer is exempt from being paid overtime or being paid the hourly minimum wage for the hours actually worked, but it does not mean a full time lawyer could be paid $12,000 per year. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77003977582280022332014-08-20T07:26:37.298-06:002014-08-20T07:26:37.298-06:00Do min. wage laws even apply to lawyers? My unders...Do min. wage laws even apply to lawyers? My understanding is that they do not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24932713750529092002014-08-19T23:19:54.659-06:002014-08-19T23:19:54.659-06:00I completely agree.
Among the long-term survivors...I completely agree.<br /><br />Among the long-term survivors, there is a clear bias towards the privileged class. Sure, a few got lucky and landed in gov't jobs, etc. but by and large the long-term successful people were juiced in from the start. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-1692990680853934282014-08-19T17:55:11.469-06:002014-08-19T17:55:11.469-06:00Law is for rich kids—and nobody else.
Old Guy
Law is for rich kids—and nobody else.<br /><br />Old Guy<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76134719517350976402014-08-19T17:53:27.012-06:002014-08-19T17:53:27.012-06:00Could that $12k figure be the salary for nine mont...Could that $12k figure be the salary for nine months? If so, it's $16k on an annual basis. Still below minimum wage.<br /><br />Old GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8240034613809738582014-08-19T17:51:35.288-06:002014-08-19T17:51:35.288-06:00I don't believe even 1% "JD Advantage&quo...I don't believe even 1% "JD Advantage". Really, there are very few jobs in that category, and even fewer that go to fresh graduates.<br /><br />"JD Advantage" is just perfume to cover the faecal smell of reality.<br /><br />Likewise, "Other Professional" is a lie. I bet that that category includes secretaries, and maybe even clerks at Wal-Mart.<br /><br />Old Guy<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15190782251631633462014-08-19T12:39:52.575-06:002014-08-19T12:39:52.575-06:00Entirely correct. From my own view, I combine NAL...Entirely correct. From my own view, I combine NALP's "JD Advantage" and "Other Professional" into what I call the "JD Advantage Meta Group", which is around 15% on average.<br /><br />If you look at "JD Advantage" "only", as you suggest, then the actual percentage is about half to two-thirds of 15%, which is your original point. It's definitely not worth spending money on, either way. dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81468102513221183762014-08-19T12:19:35.685-06:002014-08-19T12:19:35.685-06:00You only have to look at Law School Lemmings to se...You only have to look at Law School Lemmings to see the students who will hit the job market within the next couple of years. These poor kids don't have a chance. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-57937301203638689872014-08-19T09:31:10.737-06:002014-08-19T09:31:10.737-06:00So what happens to all those young attorneys who c...So what happens to all those young attorneys who can't find real jobs and aren't practicing? How do you service that debt? I could barely support myself out of UG college with no debt and an okay job.<br /><br />Realistically, to pay off 150k in debt, I would estimate you have to put down an average contribution of at least 13-17k for 15 years of faithful payments. That's a grand to a grand and a half a month. Furthermore, the interest payments are so large, that, initially, you would have to chip the 150k down by increments of 20k a year just to be paying something towards the principle.<br /><br />I'm guessing its only safe to play the law school game if you have family connections.Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76309328875774701382014-08-19T08:39:20.694-06:002014-08-19T08:39:20.694-06:00In addition, the market is glutted with recently l...In addition, the market is glutted with recently laid off associates, and people who are actually partners in small firms which are on the brink of failure.<br /><br />I can't see why somebody would hire a new grad from a school in the bottom half of the lineup, when experienced people are available and desperate.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-20388989455493656422014-08-19T08:37:51.530-06:002014-08-19T08:37:51.530-06:00"Admittedly this is a little arbitrary, but f..."Admittedly this is a little arbitrary, but from what I have seen I would believe 15-17% on "JD Advantage" jobs. I call BS, however, on 19, 20, 25%. Quinnipac, I'm looking at you in particular."<br /><br />I would not believe even that, until the schools back their classification up with evidence that a JD actually helped. And I'd like to see hard numbers on how much it helped - even if having a JD boosted somebody's chances of getting such a job from 10% to 11%, that's not worth spending money on it.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-57916017087860989412014-08-19T07:33:21.627-06:002014-08-19T07:33:21.627-06:00Duped, I agree... Especially since the 2013 numbe...Duped, I agree... Especially since the 2013 numbers would be based on the class that entered in 2010, which was one of the largest.<br /><br />You could argue that moving forward, placement rates will increase because at some institutions class size dropped.... of course so did the average class IQ, so it may wash out anyway...ThreadJockeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2672793309622517642014-08-19T07:32:16.760-06:002014-08-19T07:32:16.760-06:00I would add another red flag -- if a school is cou...I would add another red flag -- if a school is counting a lot of full time, long term jobs that are school funded -- do the jobs actually meet that definition. For example, Washington, DC's minimum wage is $9.50 -- at 35 hours per week (the minimum to count as full time), 52 weeks per year that is $17,290. Georgetown, which employed 80 of its own grads in purportedly ling term, full time jobs in the most recent stats, reportedly pays $12,000 for them. That seems to be less than minimum wage, and in this age of Obamacare mandated employer provided health insurance -- I doubt they include health insurance. So perhaps Georgetown's school funded jobs should be added to this red flag list. I would think something that pays less than minimum wage should be illegal if they are truly employed; and if they are volunteers, they should not be counted. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-87254079384646814352014-08-19T06:55:06.662-06:002014-08-19T06:55:06.662-06:00Admittedly this is a little arbitrary, but from wh...Admittedly this is a little arbitrary, but from what I have seen I would believe 15-17% on "JD Advantage" jobs. I call BS, however, on 19, 20, 25%. Quinnipac, I'm looking at you in particular.<br /><br />And let's not even go there on the amazing changes from 2011 to 2013 re: law firm employment. Absolutely laughable. Because we ALL know how well the economy in general, and the legal sector in particular, has been doing lately.<br /><br /><br /><br />dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-27229730056076162062014-08-19T06:34:17.603-06:002014-08-19T06:34:17.603-06:00Why not make 2014 the year of audits across the bo...Why not make 2014 the year of audits across the board? Remember, we still have no baseline.<br /><br />Old Guy<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com