tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post8787516720164777983..comments2024-03-28T10:16:16.768-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Indiana Tech Law School - Doing the MathUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-86040888035184744482014-10-07T15:41:23.662-06:002014-10-07T15:41:23.662-06:00You are all commenting as if the law school is the...You are all commenting as if the law school is the biggest problem Indiana Tech has. Everything at that school is a scam. They admit drug addicts, violent offenders and child predators ass full-time students. There is also a major financial aid scandal that most know about. They bring in students who would not get in anywhere else on padded loans, then the students take the extra money for personal use and are passed through classes. Upon graduation the loans are due which often students cannot pay back, but Tech already has the tuition money in hand therefore they do not care if students go into debt. Word on the street in Fort Wayne is that Arthur Snyder was unethical in his business practices with Fort Wayne contractors who built the law school. A final fact about Tech: If a student decides to transfer, their credits will not transfer to an accredited university. The ratio of full-time faculty to adjuncts is 1 to 30 and that is generous. Most of the faculty only have M.A. degrees. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54712020794653529802014-06-03T19:28:57.092-06:002014-06-03T19:28:57.092-06:00@12:13:
As quickly as you can, sign the student l...@12:13:<br /><br />As quickly as you can, sign the student loan promissory notes in my hand.<br /><br />When you can sign all the student loan promissory notes in my hand, it will be time for you to leave.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74535161085536592702014-06-03T13:45:45.866-06:002014-06-03T13:45:45.866-06:00Learned history and spatial distribution in the pu...Learned history and spatial distribution in the public schools, too, I see. Connecticut was fully settled decades before the American Revolution and fully divided into incorporated towns before that war. It thus developed as a colony/state of towns that were geographically very small. Hartford is 17.3 square miles, Stamford's land area is 37.7. Chicago is 234 square miles. Boston got big by annexing several neighboring towns (e.g. Charlestown, Brighton, Dorchester, West Roxbury, Hyde Park and Roxbury.) No such annexations ever occurred in Connecticut. And when modern cities began to grow there was also zero unincorporated territory to annex, so the development spilled into the suburbs, which were pre-existing towns. Yale is commutable from all of New Haven County (population 862,477), Fairfield County (population 933,835), Middlesex County (population 165,608) as well as most of Hartford County (population 897,259) and parts of New London County (population 274,055). Yale has a population of over 2.5 million from which to draw non-traditional commuter students.<br /><br />And in all of Connecticut public institutions are spread over several communities rather than all being in one "major" city. Further, in the case of Stamford your criteria are flawed. Trains run night and day to Grand Central - a 50 minute ride each way. Stamford probably has fewer and smaller cultural institutions than would the largest city in a county of 933,835 people bordered by other large counties (including Westchester County, New York) but try competing with the cultural attractions of New York City.<br /><br />And in case you're ever on Jeopardy the Electric Boat submarine building yards are in Groton, not New London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33245773271955662322014-06-03T08:06:14.453-06:002014-06-03T08:06:14.453-06:00Goodness 10:02, if you understood geography you...Goodness 10:02, if you understood geography you'd know that it takes more than corporations to make a major city. Racine, Wisconsin isn't a major city, even with a corporate headquarters there. Bentonville, Arkansas isn't a major city, even though a huge corporation is headquartered there. So Fairfield wouldn't qualify either, even if GE occupies an office park there. Stamford doesn't have nearly enough population, economic concentration, or public institutions to be a major city. And New Haven has a university! And New London has a submarine factory! And Bridgeport has 144,000 residents! And Hartford has 124,000 residents! But they're not major cities either.<br /><br />To get back to the original point, there aren't enough non-traditional students in Stamford to fill up a law school. That could be why there isn't a law school in Stamford. I hope that little insight about spatial distribution isn't lost on you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45740402569039055582014-06-03T01:13:14.633-06:002014-06-03T01:13:14.633-06:00Speaking of Vermont Law School:
http://vtdigger.o...Speaking of Vermont Law School:<br /><br />http://vtdigger.org/2014/05/28/vermont-law-partners-zhongnan-university/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85925692270793220342014-06-02T15:58:10.575-06:002014-06-02T15:58:10.575-06:00Yeah of course this was no need for a new law scho...Yeah of course this was no need for a new law school, but I was thinking - what if they had decided to try something really innovative. Take over an existing building, and then offer a barebones law degree for only $10k p/a concentrating on practical small law/solo subjects.<br /><br />But there wouldn't have been any prestige in that. And no chance of making lots of money (although that's not going to happen anyhow). Nor would the study of practical small law subjects over "international law" appeal to lemmings. And even if Arthur Synder wanted to try out such an innovative low cost model, he would have been overruled by investors.<br /><br />But their law school really is a beautiful building. Perhaps they can get some more practical use out of it if/when the law school folds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70398234950005339352014-06-02T15:39:40.604-06:002014-06-02T15:39:40.604-06:00I don't believe that they'll close the toi...I don't believe that they'll close the toilet in the next few months: that would be too sudden, and it might engage legal liability. Besides, the parent institution has its reputation to consider. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-86062616251576038122014-06-02T14:29:30.336-06:002014-06-02T14:29:30.336-06:00My money is on closure of Indiana Tech Law School ...My money is on closure of Indiana Tech Law School before Sept. 1, 2014. The insiders have to believe by now that they can't admit another class. They're just acting as if everything is business as usual in order to give themselves time to prepare for an orderly retreat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46234322641924339342014-06-02T14:06:01.453-06:002014-06-02T14:06:01.453-06:00Regarding bean counters. I once had a conversatio...Regarding bean counters. I once had a conversation with the Executive Director of the United Way in the small, Midwestern city where I attended college. His biggest headache at that moment was that one of his member organizations, the YWCA, was building a brick and mortar addition that would house one tennis court, and planned to pay for it by renting the court out during the winter months. He pointed out that commercial operators built much-cheaper steel buildings or used inflatable structures, and in either case had several courts in one structure to spread out the fixed costs. The YWCA, he said, was going to go broke and he was going to be expected to find a way to save them.<br /><br />I told him that I had read in the local paper that they had had a feasibility study done that said that it would work.<br /><br />He smiled at me in that kind-but-knowing way older, wiser men smile at 21-year-olds and asked me: "Do you know what the purpose of a feasibility study is?" I said that it was to determine the feasibility of a project you were considering. He smiled again and replied: "No, that's not the purpose of a feasibility study. The purpose of a feasibility study is to tell you that the decision you have already made is absolutely correct."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31571569186339335512014-06-02T11:18:56.110-06:002014-06-02T11:18:56.110-06:00The California Gold Rush, the 1929 stock market fr...The California Gold Rush, the 1929 stock market frenzy, the 1980's real estate boom, the dot-com madness. People see other people making tons of seemingly easy money and want a piece of the action. But by the time anyone who didn't get in very early figures out there's easy money to be made it is no longer easy. Of course, the early 49ers got to keep the gold they found, but some relatively long-standing law schools might well be headed for the ash heap of history, done in by their greed in assuming students would keep borrowing more and more money for higher and higher tuition forever, and that the market glut would ever get so bad. <br /><br />The other funny thing about the Gold Rush was that John Sutter, the relatively wealthy man on whose land gold was first found, was overrun with squatters and ruined, while Levy Strauss got filthy rich selling pants to prospectors. Indiana Tech is screwed financially but the artists who sold them the art collection no doubt made out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-65023661207047300812014-06-02T11:02:38.229-06:002014-06-02T11:02:38.229-06:00Aw Fu again, 11:31, do you know how many major cor...Aw Fu again, 11:31, do you know how many major corporations are based in Hartford and Stamford, Connecticut? AEtna, Travelers, The Hartford, United Technologies, GTE Pitney Bowes, Maybe count GE in Fairfield and Stanley Works in New Britain. Learned American geography in the public schools, did we?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-423847910580344472014-06-02T09:51:38.206-06:002014-06-02T09:51:38.206-06:00Aw F u 11:31, what's wrong with the Raleigh/Du...Aw F u 11:31, what's wrong with the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill triangle?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-10402503281142348562014-06-02T07:43:22.476-06:002014-06-02T07:43:22.476-06:00It's mind boggling that anyone applied to this...It's mind boggling that anyone applied to this school at all... <br /><br />By the way, people now think that giant student loan debt figures are a big joke. They actually just make light of how deep in debt they will be as if it's not real (see twitter, facebook, etc...). <br /><br />Anyone who applies to law school now thinking it's OK to accumulate 6-figure debt at a low/no-ranked school is out of their F&*^ing mind. They deserve what's coming to them. Complete and utter financial ruin.<br /><br />I know people in $200-300,000 in debt who graduated this past May without jobs locked up post-bar. It's crazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-89818244630255636462014-06-02T05:15:01.701-06:002014-06-02T05:15:01.701-06:00@5:43, you beat me to that thought, but I will add...@5:43, you beat me to that thought, but I will add that the original German title of the novel was "Im Westen Nicht Neues." They translated it to what an English speaking army would report, "All Quiet on the Western Front," but it transliterates as "Nothing New in the West." Nothing new in any attempts to launch a TTT these days, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62247953147660615142014-06-02T00:31:18.053-06:002014-06-02T00:31:18.053-06:00I'd say that Yale and Duke are more than 60 mi...I'd say that Yale and Duke are more than 60 miles from a major city.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-28338661003564985512014-06-01T22:09:37.827-06:002014-06-01T22:09:37.827-06:00Keep saving, 4:08, and you may be able to buy that...Keep saving, 4:08, and you may be able to buy that art collection at public auction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17559541996542347682014-06-01T22:07:06.255-06:002014-06-01T22:07:06.255-06:00Don't expect rationality from the likes of Ind...Don't expect rationality from the likes of Indiana Tech, 11:51. Had its founders had two living brain cells to rub together, they never would have opened the goddamn toilet.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34234793788263273422014-06-01T19:52:43.694-06:002014-06-01T19:52:43.694-06:00That is why Vermont Law School is teetering on the...That is why Vermont Law School is teetering on the brink. No local population from which to draw any but a handful of students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-14679288622862642292014-06-01T18:26:11.683-06:002014-06-01T18:26:11.683-06:00Agree with you on admission folks, Old Guy, but th...Agree with you on admission folks, Old Guy, but the point is that South Bend, Indiana is the closest thing Fort Wayne has to an identical twin, and thus likely to share a limited supply of super-qualified non-trads in the local population. Other than Virginia and Cornell, what T-14 is more than 60 miles from a major city?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-22423363316640556072014-06-01T17:08:55.155-06:002014-06-01T17:08:55.155-06:00Man, I wanna see that art collection before the sc...Man, I wanna see that art collection before the school closes. I figure I've got another year to save up for a trip to Fort Wayne.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74982549313444727062014-06-01T13:49:49.578-06:002014-06-01T13:49:49.578-06:00The finer details are much appreciated. Thanks fo...The finer details are much appreciated. Thanks for putting in the time.<br /><br />The closer one looks at this school, the clearer the utter madness of its very existence appears. How anyone with an ounce of education could have thought that a new law school at Indiana Tech was a good idea is utterly beyond me.<br /><br />Starting a new program that will run a deficit initially is one thing. Starting one that will perpetually run a deficit is another. Were no bean counters involved in this decision? No attorneys (other than Arthur Snyder's co-conspirator in this mess, Robert Wagner)? Nobody on the entire board of trustees with any business acumen whatsoever? How everyone can have gotten this so wrong is flabbergasting. (That said, in my experience, board members are a lazy bunch, often there just for the free lunches, the token paycheck (which is often rather significant), and the fact that being a trustee or director looks good on a resume. It would not surprise me in the slightest if the board of trustees at Indiana Tech is really "The Arthur Snyder Show", and the other members are just warm bodies who will rubber stamp Mr. Snyder's empire building. I can't think of another explanation - it's either incompetence or laziness.)<br /><br />I get the impression that Mr. Snyder fired Dean Alexander and thought that would bring about closure: "Look everyone, the culprit has gone. Nothing else to see here. Move along." This isn't the case. While Dean Alexander's hands are certainly rather filthy in this whole affair, there are clearly a number of others at Indiana Tech who are covered from head to toe in this mess.<br /><br />A vote to remove Mr. Snyder from the board would be a good place to start.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-55780647259892363932014-06-01T13:33:11.522-06:002014-06-01T13:33:11.522-06:00I (Old Guy) happened to live in the vicinity of my...I (Old Guy) happened to live in the vicinity of my law school, one of the so-called élite. They didn't want to admit my fortyish ass—they openly disparaged my age during the interview—despite excellent credentials that included HYP and an LSAT score well above their range (probably the top score in the class). I was finally admitted from the waiting list.<br /><br />Oddly enough, however, Old Guy ranked high on the dean's list every semester and found time along the way to publish legal scholarship, edit the law review, complete a clerkship at an appellate court, and teach first-year legal writing, all while working on the side to support himself financially. Meanwhile, scads of rich playboys who were admitted right off the bat came in near the bottom of the class.<br /><br />Conclude what you will about the admissions office's competence and sense of priorities.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15449800642841797532014-06-01T13:15:46.466-06:002014-06-01T13:15:46.466-06:00Don't forget that Indiana Tech Law Skule emplo...Don't forget that Indiana Tech Law Skule employs a curator for its art collection. I'm not making this up.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-13248021205199477852014-06-01T12:17:12.862-06:002014-06-01T12:17:12.862-06:00Since nobody has mentioned this, I think you could...Since nobody has mentioned this, I think you could do a much better back of the envelope calculation.<br /><br />First, your revenue numbers aren't that great because the listed tuition is not the collected tuition. There's an effective discount through scholarships used to woo students and make them feel all important. It's better for most schools to list a tuition of $40K and then offer "scholarships" averaging out to $10K/student then to just have a flat tuition of $30K. In general, the lower you go down the hierarchy, the bigger the difference between list and actual price. And given the tiny # of applicants, they almost certainly wooed the ones they had with vigor.<br /><br />They'd be lucky to be taking in $600K.<br /><br />You can guess at the budget for salaries because they list their faculty and staff here: http://law.indianatech.edu/staff/<br /><br />They have ten professors listed. Assume a cost of about $140K/professor (probably about right on average--several of the profs serve dual roles as deans, so will get more on average; but the school is bottom heavy with young people who are likely paid poorly, comparatively speaking, and given the institution in question, possibly under six figures. Add in the employer side of employment taxes and benefits--all those usually amount to about 30% more than the actual salary figure).<br /><br />Then there are thirteen other staff/administration members, who we'll eyeball at a cost of $45K for the total cost of employment. (This is probably low-ish.)<br /><br />That puts total salary at $1,985,000, plus or minus my not being able to count, add, or estimate.<br /><br />But 10 faculty members would be hard put to offer the full range of courses necessary for a law school to function, and they lack necessary staff members to provide the education they claim: an internship coordinator, for instance, or any clinical staff that I can identify. There are also some pretty gaping curriculum holes. <br /><br />Some of these they will surely adjunct out. But this isn't counting building expenses or the cost of running a library.<br /><br />So I'd be willing to bet that their "100 students" mark was chosen with the understanding that in the first year they'd be running a deficit--that is, even if they took in the full $3mil you estimate, they'd be in the hole by at least $500K.Carthage must be footnotednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-12422993950999093002014-06-01T08:53:23.173-06:002014-06-01T08:53:23.173-06:00Prof. Campos' comment about the first class cl...Prof. Campos' comment about the first class cleaning out the pent-up demand is very astute. I went to Notre Dame Law 30 years ago. There were VERY few students from the South Bend area. We had a couple of over-40 non-trads in my class who were locals. Both very nice people but quite frankly it was obvious that they were only admitted because the school wanted some over-40 non-trads as part of the mix and it was hard to get people in that category to relocate there for three years. At the opposite end of the spectrum, on average the Notre Dame undergrads (I'm not one) were the brightest folks there. Loads of bright ND gradates wanted to stay on campus for law school but the law school had an unspoken but easy-to-see quota so that the school wouldn't be dominated by their own undergrad alumni. I would also imagine that there were a lot more locals who'd have liked to have stayed local to attend law school, but at least back then the law school had the option of being picky.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com