tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post8726239852037907741..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Ditching the LSAT and Slurping the FrothUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76864834375480038362017-03-20T23:47:40.197-06:002017-03-20T23:47:40.197-06:00"For many graduates, and most women and minor..."For many graduates, and most women and minorities, an elite law degree has not panned out into a long-term career with full-time permanent legal jobs." Truer words were never spoken!! <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23898085403805043782017-03-20T12:40:02.558-06:002017-03-20T12:40:02.558-06:00That's correct. Employers think, You're a ...That's correct. Employers think, You're a lawyer!!!!!!!!! What do you need a job for? I needed a law job in my late 40s because my Solo practice tanked. I went to a local political guy and did some "pro bono" work for him. I asked him to help me get a job. His response: "You're a lawyer. I saw an armored car in town. Thought he was delivering your cash." I kid you not. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8903709532027501472017-03-19T13:23:59.734-06:002017-03-19T13:23:59.734-06:00With the new health care plan being pushed through...With the new health care plan being pushed through Congress by the GOP, there will be less demand for medical services from the patients in government programs that reimbursed doctors at a very low level, mainly Medicare and Medicaid. Probably will not affect the bread and butter business of employer health plans as currently proposed. The GOP bill could have an impact on how many doctors and other medical professionals are needed in the long run. <br /><br />What is ominous is that Mayo Clinic just announced on their website that they are treating patients in employer health plans before those in Medicare and Medicaid. That is pretty sickening, but not relevant to this blog. <br /><br />Imagine being a doctor and being told by Mayo Clinic to let the Medicare and Medicaid patients die because there is a private pay patient with a similar illness whose employer is paying more than the government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72032081858527279672017-03-19T06:45:50.934-06:002017-03-19T06:45:50.934-06:00It is really important for commenters to repeat, a...It is really important for commenters to repeat, again and again, on this blog that the employment outcomes for graduates of elite law schools are terrible for lawyers in their early 50s and older. <br /><br />College students enrolling in top law schools assume that the employment outcomes in the high 80 percentiles for first years will continue for their careers and that the law school scam will not affect them. That is so untrue for all the reasons covered in the posts and comments on this blog. It is almost impossible to leave the law for another job that will even hit six figures in a high cost area when a lawyer is in their 50s, and the employers with legal jobs will not hire them.<br /><br />Going to an elite law school is a bad deal for a good percentage top college graduates who enrolled 25 years ago or more. For many graduates, and most women and minorities, an elite law degree has not panned out into a long-term career with full-time permanent legal jobs.<br /><br />Take a look at this report on law firms showing unreliable demand for law firm services, a surplus of lawyers in law firms and recommending that firms step up to the plate to fire lawyers without enough work, and replace them with contract workers. http://www.altmanweil.com/index.cfm/fa/r.resource_detail/oid/95e9df8e-9551-49da-9e25-2cd868319447/resources/Law_Firms_in_Transition_2016_An_Altman_Weil_Flash_Survey.cfm<br />Not a pretty picture for any top college student considering law as a career.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70202752220123418362017-03-18T17:32:02.011-06:002017-03-18T17:32:02.011-06:00Having a solid CS background doesn't guarantee...Having a solid CS background doesn't guarantee shit in patent. Believe me, I tried. <br /><br />Through my industry contacts from before law school, I did manage to get a few interviews but at the end of the day the market is just too damn unforgiving. Unless you're EXACTLY the candidate they're looking for (right age, right school, right graduation year, etc), they still won't take a second look at you. And that's after you've already gotten through the door via contacts and are sitting on what would normally be a "sure thing." At the end of the day, even if you take a perfect angle of attack you're basically gambling that the stars are right and all the partners signing off on you had the right thing for breakfast. <br /><br />If you put that same level of effort and networking capital into getting a programming job, you'll be hired before the end of the week and for more money. In most areas in the country there are programming jobs but no patent lawyer jobs. In the areas where there are openings in both, the programming stuff almost always pays a lot better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-5189924693602106212017-03-18T15:12:36.654-06:002017-03-18T15:12:36.654-06:00There has been a glut in patent for a long time. A...There has been a glut in patent for a long time. All the broke STEM PhDs that couldn't get a professorship figured they'd go to law school. This flooded the market of course.<br /><br />Also meant a mere undergrad degree plus the law degree were not going to be enough. But if you already have the undergrad, the doctorate, and years of experience and need to get even more schooling on top of that, you've wasted so much of your life already. Even if it works out, it was a bad bet.<br /><br />The only parts of STEM that have worked out have been medicine for the S, elite programming for T, electrical for the E, and for M maybe actuary and a few government positions. These are all very limited in supply. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70233322902891168782017-03-18T13:18:14.974-06:002017-03-18T13:18:14.974-06:00@10:21 -- "...instead of sending them to pris...@10:21 -- "...instead of sending them to prison or even firing them, they put them in a rehab program to teach them not to be pillheads"<br /><br />I think this has less to do with them being nurses and/or job security in healthcare, and more to do with certain other considerations--things that are not "politically correct," so we won't discuss them here.<br /><br />That being said, you are absolutely correct. Nursing has become a fabulous profession.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-4909274822656629242017-03-17T22:21:35.978-06:002017-03-17T22:21:35.978-06:00About that job security and income in health care....About that job security and income in health care. In can personally vouch for this. It's like the anti-matter version of the legal profession. <br /><br />My wife's a nurse. She's been out of nursing school about two years but she already makes more than I ever made as a lawyer, with no rainmaking, billing hassles or anything. She just shows up to work and they shovel money into our bank account. In a couple of years she'll be making more than me. For a woman in her 20s, there is nothing that compares to nursing in terms of job security and pay. Nothing else in this economy compares to it. <br /><br />The job security in health care is also insane. There are actually a bunch of nurses in her hospital who are on probation for stealing meds. But get this- instead of sending them to prison or even firing them, they put them in a rehab program to teach them not to be pillheads. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-20193662589521065432017-03-17T14:41:35.778-06:002017-03-17T14:41:35.778-06:00"....court filings of almost all kinds have d..."....court filings of almost all kinds have declined precipitously"<br /><br />Why is that? Any thoughts? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72677800887867241452017-03-17T11:53:36.536-06:002017-03-17T11:53:36.536-06:00"On top of all this, in my court and in most,..."On top of all this, in my court and in most, court filings of almost all kinds have declined precipitously, civil and criminal, diminishing the market for professional legal services even more."<br /><br />The exact opposite is happening to federal Social Security. Here's the trend for federal court Social Security EAJA fees paid out. That's a 100% increase in six years:<br /><br />2010 $19,743,189.12<br />2011 $21,668,646.47<br />2012 $24,666,171.13<br />2013 $27,720,951.87<br />2014 $31,637,462.36<br />2015 $38,132,381.48<br />2016 $40,045,962.42<br /><br />https://www.ssa.gov/open/data/EAJA.html<br />JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126071014909954387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85191546537108553232017-03-17T11:14:41.004-06:002017-03-17T11:14:41.004-06:00The difference between law and other careers is th...The difference between law and other careers is that today, many jobs in health care come with job security and decent income. Governmental jobs that are unionized come with job security and a decent income as well.<br /><br />Agreed that not all new college or other grads are getting jobs that warrant a college degree though. <br /><br />The oversupply of lawyers has made law a uniquely horrific professional disaster area because so many lawyers who came from big law or top law schools are outright unemployed in an economy that is creating jobs. That is on top of hundreds of thousands of toileteers, who should have never gone to law school in the first place because they were 95% doomed for failure before they took the LSAT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-1139706120649735362017-03-17T11:06:40.970-06:002017-03-17T11:06:40.970-06:00Completely agreed. There is such overcapacity in ...Completely agreed. There is such overcapacity in my practice area in most law firms, it is ridiculous. This is among lawyers who have good jobs in big law, mid law or boutiques. Some of the boutiques and mid law jobs are involuntary part-time work or as needed, which means many less hours than part time. <br /><br />Many lawyers are getting fired and not getting replacement jobs due to overcapacity in the law firms. <br /><br />There is no place to turn to earn a dime in the legal profession. The temporary jobs are few and far between and they are very competitive. Of course, they put the lawyer out on the street potentially unemployed for months and months when the temporary job ends<br /><br />Most of the lawyers getting in house jobs are in their 30s or early 40s. In your 50s or older, you may have a lot of trouble working with really elite degrees.<br /><br />You are so right that the legal profession has completely changed for the worse, and needs many, many fewer lawyers than in the past, and maybe a third of the lawyers who are graduating today if you count starving solos and jobs that no lawyer can hold after a few years of experience, like clerkships and most associate jobs in law firms.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-56238602471475198732017-03-15T17:15:47.512-06:002017-03-15T17:15:47.512-06:00I am an old lawyer... graduating in the days when ...I am an old lawyer... graduating in the days when tuition was low and jobs plentiful. I am slowing down now...no longer advertising, just basically trying to close out my cases without losing money over what I bring in... spend a lot of time reading the financials these days...may go into "day trading" for my remaining years....here is the thing, I've been reading David Stockman's Contra corner for a while...I like him because you get the facts, and since he was Reagan's Budget director and then was on Wallstreet for a long time, he knows what he is talking about... not the bullsh^t like you usually do about the Jobs report, etc. If you want to know the truth about the pathetic jobs created this century, pick up a $29.00 subscription and read this weeks reports...he posts Monday through Friday. In summary, Well paying jobs being created are well short of where they have been in the past... so its not just lawyers looking for jobs...its everybody. Of note... he said today... march 15th, with the debt ceiling deadline being met... its all over. I'll try posting his report next post if not too long.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-22380328306339190332017-03-15T13:48:14.716-06:002017-03-15T13:48:14.716-06:00The diminishing legal market requires higher, not ...The diminishing legal market requires higher, not lower qualifications of lawyers, and unquestionably fewer lawyers.<br /><br />A few decades ago, after working some years for an older lawyer, I hung out my solo shingle in a prosperous yet legally underserved region. I was booked solid the first day and thereafter. I did pause to consider what I was selling to my clients, which consisted of:<br /><br />1. My access to my own expensive subscription law library, all paper, and my ability to find what was needed in that library.<br />2. My knowledge and experience, gained from law school followed by intensive training under a tough old lawyer for half a dozen years.<br />3. Politically incorrect, a certain IQ, i.e. innate cognitive reasoning skills which could be rented to clients to solve unique and sometimes very difficult problems.<br /><br />More recent law grads face an entirely different and much bleaker legal landscape today. The internet provides everyone with access to legal materials which could once only be obtained by a lawyer's expensive private subscriptions. "How-To" materials, apps, and videos encourage and enable the general public to represent themselves in routine cases which would previously have absolutely required an attorney to handle properly. These were the routine processes that previously gave me and many other younger lawyers a financial start, but they now often do not involve hired lawyers at all. I see a huge and growing volume of pro per self-representation in my court.<br /><br />It has become much harder for a newer lawyer to gain a sufficient volume of marketable experience under competent supervision to add to the knowledge obtained in law school. <br /><br />Previously, law schools were highly selective and the vast bulk of graduates who passed the bar were relatively cognitively gifted and adept by virtue of intellect at solving novel problems. There were always some who squeaked through and left one wondering how they did it with so little intellectual horsepower, but they were rare. Over the years, the less cognitively gifted have become much more common in the mix as standards have declined. There are still superbly gifted newer grads, as noted in the preceding post and evidenced by the insights of those who post to this site. But they are awash in a sea of cognitively less astute aspirants.<br /><br />On top of all this, in my court and in most, court filings of almost all kinds have declined precipitously, civil and criminal, diminishing the market for professional legal services even more.<br /><br />As a result of all these factors, far fewer lawyers are needed than previously, and only the most competent and astute lawyers are really needed in the current marketplace. The schools have responded with the exact opposite of what is needed.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21348279714954162872017-03-15T02:28:02.132-06:002017-03-15T02:28:02.132-06:00Each class at Harvard is over 550 students. Harvar...Each class at Harvard is over 550 students. Harvard and Georgetown are more like lawyer-factories.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8626621831010691612017-03-14T14:58:04.059-06:002017-03-14T14:58:04.059-06:00I think that's a great idea, Nando. I'm su...I think that's a great idea, Nando. I'm sure eventually, judges will accept briefs written in macaroni or play-doh, which is the direction these law schools are headed with respect to admissions standards. Recovering Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05216005842425651479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-982190284467360882017-03-14T10:31:47.724-06:002017-03-14T10:31:47.724-06:00I am one of the fortunate ones, working for a stat...I am one of the fortunate ones, working for a state court now, graduating from law school when few had student debt and a part time job would pay the modest tuition. It has been sad to witness the destruction of law as a viable career by the scammers.<br /><br />Recently I had my arm twisted to counsel a couple of newer lawyers who were desperately unemployed. Quickly in the conversations I realized that they unquestionably lacked the intellects necessary to succeed in law, or any field requiring significant intelligence and reasoning. To their annoyance, I advised them to find some other field of endeavor. That they had gained admission to law school was a testimony to how low standards had fallen.<br /><br />In contrast, the writers and commentators on this site greatly impress me with their astuteness. Their words and wit are those of the highest caliber of lawyers, who in any fair system should not have a desperate scramble to find employment. My hat is off to them as they attempt to navigate the now dystopian legal world that the greedy scammers have created and continue to poison.<br /><br />A quaint quote from Andrew Lytle comes to mind: “We have been slobbered upon by those who have chewed the mad root’s poison, a poison which penetrates to the spirit and rots the soul.” Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-57932816917268286622017-03-14T09:36:28.729-06:002017-03-14T09:36:28.729-06:00Headline in the San Francisco Chronicle now . . . ...Headline in the San Francisco Chronicle now . . . "California bar exam's passing score should be lowered, critics say"<br /><br />Passage rates are understandably down though the cut scoring has remained constant. <br /><br />"In recent weeks, a growing chorus of voices - from state legislators to law school deans to court officials - have registered urgent concerns that the lowest score needed to pass the exam, commonly referred to as the "cut score," is too high, flunking would-be attorneys . . . "<br /><br />" . . . it disproportionately disadvantages lower-income and minority students."<br /><br />I took the CA bar and another state bar within the same month. The CA bar was easy, much easier than the other state bar. But California allows unaccredited law school grads to sit for the bar, and with those schools passage rates are especially low, and a huge reservoir of bar failing grads take and re-take the exam, adding to the "low" passage rate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17553184564783569852017-03-14T08:23:53.154-06:002017-03-14T08:23:53.154-06:00BUT, I seriously doubt that the mouthbreathers tha...BUT, I seriously doubt that the mouthbreathers that attend the nation's lower tier schools can obtain anything close to a respectable score on the quantitative section of the GRE. And I think that accepting GRE scores for those schools is a "be careful what you ask for" moment. Student who attend grad schools are actually the serious ones, at least about their subjects. The 0Ls taking the GRE for a host of other reasons than being drawn to the law. They will be up against serious students and may not fare as well, even in the verbal sections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-56823520367085437832017-03-14T07:53:50.889-06:002017-03-14T07:53:50.889-06:00Just looking at all the blogs to the side on leavi...Just looking at all the blogs to the side on leaving the law. For any lawyer who has worked in a high paying job, most of the leaving the law jobs are low paying paralegal or BA required jobs. If you have gone to a top caliber law school and you are taking a consultant job of some type for $52,000 plus bonus, you have lost the value of your law degree. A pyrrhic victory. The advice to leave the law leaves you with a low salary that does cover the cost of law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-10182049641795086352017-03-14T01:09:51.733-06:002017-03-14T01:09:51.733-06:00True that. My brother is a middle aged Harvard gr...True that. My brother is a middle aged Harvard grad and after several trips through big law and despite several some very big wins, his revenue dropped for a few years and he got tossed out. I am a tier 50 grad who gets resumes from top 10 lawyers - business is business , and if you're 8-10 years out without a book of portables of $500,000, mid law won't look at you, let alone big law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-48737305543541345202017-03-13T22:54:19.569-06:002017-03-13T22:54:19.569-06:00this is absurd. Harvard is an intsutiont with a re...this is absurd. Harvard is an intsutiont with a reputation to protect. what's going on there? it soils the rest of the business so to spekAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-48740773396903725052017-03-13T10:57:55.379-06:002017-03-13T10:57:55.379-06:00@10:29 -- 7:56 here
Admittedly, most of what I kn...@10:29 -- 7:56 here<br /><br />Admittedly, most of what I know about software patents is through diffusion. People at my firm have worked on them, thus I pick up a thing or two along the way. I, myself, have never worked on them, at least not to any significant degree.<br /><br />However, I hear a lot of electrical engineers and/or computer science people talk about getting into patent law, and I think their expectations are a bit unrealistic.<br /><br />Regarding patents for medical procedures, that I can tell you has been affected by the whole Bilski "trend." If you're interested, look-up Mayo Collaborative Services vs. Prometheus Laboratories, which in effect applies Bilski to methods for using drugs to treat patients.<br /><br />My personal opinion is that the USPTO has been too liberal in granting patents, and the quality of many (dare I say most) patents is very low. The courts are absolutely correct in limiting the scope of patent protection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-5556879897651343042017-03-12T14:12:06.417-06:002017-03-12T14:12:06.417-06:0010:29 here. Yeah, I have noticed that the supreme ...10:29 here. Yeah, I have noticed that the supreme court has been kinda-sorta inching towards software = abstract idea direction. It made me feel kinda smug about going back into programming when I did. The whole art of drafting software so it gets around 101 has always struck me slightly fishy.<br /><br />That being said, the dominant attitude of the courts towards software patents seems to mainly be one of confusion. These guys don't fundamentally "get" programming or computers because most of them are the same age cohort as my parents and they're lawyers, which pretty much throws math and computer literacy out the window. <br /><br />I personally feel that something like a merge sort or a hashtable should be a patentable invention (yes, I know they have been around since the dawn of time). That being said, they are both made up entirely of math. There is abstraction (ie, hidden math) between a programmer saying "use a string as a key for this hashtable" and the mathematical operations that accomplish it, but it's still just math all the way down. But it doesn't stop with simple data structures and algorithms. When you get around to saying something more complex and arguably brilliant like node.js, or an algorithm to diagnose diseases or find a cure for cancer is an invention you run into the problem that it's all math at the end of the day. Once courts start to really grasp how it all works, either congress will have to revise 101 or the courts will have to start tossing software patents wholesale. But I wouldn't hole my breath. <br /><br />Either way, going into patent law, CS or no, seems to be a bad idea of late. <br /><br />It's ironic that I only started making a biglaw money once I left law. I wonder if they count my salary in the lawyer salary stats. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42798260338914888832017-03-12T13:21:13.434-06:002017-03-12T13:21:13.434-06:00Harvard's law school is huge, second only to G...Harvard's law school is huge, second only to Georgetown's (and just barely) in first-year enrollment. Harvard, of course, draws overwhelmingly from the top end—the upper 160s and higher. But that group increasingly avoids law school altogether. It's already a small group, with only 2000 people scoring 170 or higher. So, yes, Harvard has trouble filling its class with people of the caliber that it has traditionally sought.Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.com