tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post5824832732647974723..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: What will robot lawyers mean for human legal education? Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8568241981049246892016-05-30T08:31:06.524-06:002016-05-30T08:31:06.524-06:00"If a robot can replace you, you are not a la..."If a robot can replace you, you are not a lawyer."<br /><br />Probably true, but:<br /><br />a) By that definition, a lot of lawyers are not lawyers. Note that document review seems to be ripe for this.<br /><br /><br />b) A partner with a robot is a partner who needs fewer associates.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-4759299022481691402016-05-29T00:05:47.142-06:002016-05-29T00:05:47.142-06:00Agreed 9:32. I recall reading a study somewhere th...Agreed 9:32. I recall reading a study somewhere that ranked law schools by the percentage of students landing Big Law who went on to become partners in Big Law. While HYSC and the rest of the T14 placed the lion's share of associates, the percentage of associates who made partner from top schools was surprisingly smaller than those who made partner from lesser schools like Loyola of Chicago, Texas, etc. I think the researchers attributed that finding to an inherent selection bias particular to sub-elite institutions. These lawyers from the lesser fraction of the first Tier were "grittier" and thus more committed to running the guantlet to make partner. Indeed they'd already beaten the odds with their ability to land Big Law from outside the T14, and clearly this wasn't attributable to their superior academics. Likewise neither was their making partner. I'd post a link if I could find it, but suffice it to say that empirical evidence suggests making Big Law partner isn't perfectly correlated with "intellect" as the hackademics would like us to believe. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-51004521738752788642016-05-28T19:07:05.275-06:002016-05-28T19:07:05.275-06:00We won't need Team AAMPLE anymore. Do you conc...We won't need Team AAMPLE anymore. Do you concur Old Guy?Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31165582681883750632016-05-26T21:32:55.264-06:002016-05-26T21:32:55.264-06:00The hubris of these professors is comical.
Part...The hubris of these professors is comical. <br /><br />Partners at biglaw need to bring in big business, otherwise they're gone. These professors (who were on law review, had clerkships and were associates at top firms) WRONGLY believe that their "intellect" is all you need.<br /><br />You know that old saying "if you can't do, you teach" (or something like that). In the case of law professors, it's actually true. I seriously doubt stuck-up elitists without any common sense can court clients with deep pockets. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7410937621469534442016-05-26T10:55:23.965-06:002016-05-26T10:55:23.965-06:00The problem is that law professors and government ...The problem is that law professors and government attorneys believe they are making a huge sacrifice in the name of public service because they compare themselves to an equity partner at Sidley or Jenner. When the comparison group should be us Solos, Micro Firms and the unemployed attorney. They are doing well and are wealthy compared to me.Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-11133572137487902012016-05-25T21:51:11.686-06:002016-05-25T21:51:11.686-06:00When will these robots replace overpaid, underwork...When will these robots replace overpaid, underworked, lazy-ass "law professors"?!?! Hell, the lectures could be put online for a tiny fraction of the existing cost of tuition.Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79619222102488140342016-05-25T20:12:06.061-06:002016-05-25T20:12:06.061-06:00@Old Guy -- "I'm not sure how I would use...@Old Guy -- "I'm not sure how I would use a robot" <br /><br />You could use it for document review, although a monkey would probably be cheaper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-41010757102339039322016-05-25T14:32:24.927-06:002016-05-25T14:32:24.927-06:00Andrew Perlman said "There is tremendous pote...Andrew Perlman said "There is tremendous potential for law graduates to fill new niches in the legal industry, such as founding an e-discovery company or creating a software process that makes law firms more efficient and effective"<br /><br />This is an interesting statement that begs the question 'Are law graduates well suited for founding e-discovery companies or creating software processes that make law firms more efficient?'<br /><br />I think this question can be answered with actual data. Using Google I found a website with a list of firms that are already competing in the e-discovery/lawbot space. The website is http://www.capterra.com/electronic-discovery-software/ . They list 78 different software products by vendors large and small (I don't think 78 is exhaustive)<br /><br />Then I looked at career sections of their websites to see what kind of positions they were looking to fill.<br />* Nextpoint is looking for 2 Software Developers, a Data Analyst with a background in Ruby on Rails, and a salesman<br />* Logikcull is looking for 2 customer service people, 2 salesmen, and a marketer,<br />* Iprotech is looking for 2 .NET programmers and a salesman<br />E-Stat is looking for an eDiscovery analyst with some technical familiarity willing to work long hours and weekends, a marketing specialist, a Vice President of business development (essentially a salesman), and a legal technology consultant (With a J.D. and 2 years of sales experience)<br />* Digital Reef is looking for a Linux Systems Engineer, a Java developer and a salesman<br /><br />I'm thinking that if you want to go into law robotics you are going to want to be an IT professional of some kind or failing that, a salesman.<br /><br />I also found some information about people who are the heads of lawbot companies.<br />http://www.servient.com/about-us.html<br />Servient's CEO holds a J.D. from the University of Virginia<br />Their VP of Research and Development holds a Masters in Information Technology from Carnegie Mellon and a BS in Electronic Engineering from Mumbai University<br />Their SVP of Business Development has a BS in business from University of Connecticut and an MBA from the University of Richmond<br />Their CTO has degrees in Computer Science and Computer Engineering from Virginia Tech<br />and their VP of Strategic Alliances has a JD from the University of Texas.<br /><br />https://www.docketalarm.com/about/<br />Their CEO's linkedIn is here -> https://www.linkedin.com/in/speedplane<br />He holds a J.D. From Cardozo; and also has 7.5 years of software development experience, and has even done a stint as a salesman.<br /><br />Are students of toilets like Suffolk actually good at law, despite their mediocre LSAT scores? Also do they typically have skills in software development, systems administration, cloud computing, or technical support? Do they know anything about sales? Do they have reliable friends that know these things?<br />Do they also have friends with money, who are willing to loan it to them or give it to them in exchange for shares of their recently founded lawbot company?<br /><br />To answer this post's original question. No, students at Suffolk School of law are not suited to founding e-discovery companies or creating software processes that make the law more efficient. They are suited for click-click doc review that will die in the lawbot revolution. If you are currently attending Suffolk or any of its sister toilets you are going to want to drop out and learn to code, or learn to sell, or indeed learn to do anything else.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934671962883567010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72885903373170770152016-05-25T07:20:36.580-06:002016-05-25T07:20:36.580-06:00Another way to use robots in law: Use them to teac...Another way to use robots in law: Use them to teach classes instead of overpaid tenured professors, or even the lowly-paid disposable adjuncts! I'm surprised no one else seems to have thought of that yet.<br /><br />And as a bonus, robots can also make toast! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH-uy9W6wOAX-RWUnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67167848678425085642016-05-25T00:55:28.044-06:002016-05-25T00:55:28.044-06:00I'm not sure how I would use a robot. Maybe it...I'm not sure how I would use a robot. Maybe it would be nice to feed a robot some facts and get an estimate of damages, support payments, or valuation—along with a list of precedents supporting the estimate. I'm not sure that robots are yet good enough to do that. They certainly cannot replace me.<br /><br />In the main, the students and graduates of most law skules do not operate past the level of robots. Unable to think, they cannot analyze or synthesize anything of any complexity. They consider "IRAC" challenging and sophisticated, whereas any real jurist considers it juvenile and worthless. <br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79374495561649556792016-05-25T00:36:06.258-06:002016-05-25T00:36:06.258-06:00If a robot can replace you, you are not a lawyer.
...If a robot can replace you, you are not a lawyer.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-47045135845265843922016-05-24T22:03:50.781-06:002016-05-24T22:03:50.781-06:00There was an article several years ago on Constitu...There was an article several years ago on Constitutional Daily entitled "The Lawbot Revolution is Coming" You can read it here -> http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:the-lawbot-revolution-is-coming&catid=37:the-robot-pimp&Itemid=65<br /><br />Basically the pain train has been chugging along the track for a long period of time. Having even in 2011 already reduced doc-review to about a fifth of its previous revenue.<br /><br />If you have a JD and are a doc-reviewer or your job can be described as 'shuffling shit paper' life is going to get hard(er?) for you.<br /><br />It won't be bad for everyone in the legal field though. If you're a Big law partner you can retain more profits for yourself and pay fewer and fewer associates as you are aided and abetted by your server farms of robot lawyers doing the scunt work that newly minted lawyers used to be tasked to do. If you're a shit law king with your visage and telephone number on the side of buses and on billboards you can churn more and more DUI's slip'n'falls, whiplash, and other cases with the help of a robot partner running on your own PC.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934671962883567010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77930532538982598022016-05-24T21:27:41.114-06:002016-05-24T21:27:41.114-06:00"And the legal academy, which is well known f..."And the legal academy, which is well known for leaving its graduates with large pools of available capital and well-developed software programming skills, is perfectly adapted to help these people."<br /><br />Agreed. Also, lawyers are natural risk takers, and since their education is highly practical in nature, those new to the profession will need but a few moments on Shark Tank to round out the trifecta of disposition, talent, and means.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-27356004632080528882016-05-24T19:25:39.382-06:002016-05-24T19:25:39.382-06:00Indeed, relatively few people can set up a viable ...Indeed, relatively few people can set up a viable business. And that small group is not well represented at the likes of Suffolk Bullshit Law Skule 'n' All-U-Kin-Eet Chitt'lin's Boofay.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54807923850866648412016-05-24T18:19:52.252-06:002016-05-24T18:19:52.252-06:00It's a bizarre (and baseless) assertion, isn&#...It's a bizarre (and baseless) assertion, isn't it? Or do law schools other than the one I went to teach you how to code, run a business, and network with BigLaw people who (imagine this!) already have a robust web of vendors who already do these things in a market that is more-or-less already saturated?<br /><br />Christ.<br /><br />"Found an e-discovery company"--I mean, if doc reviewers can't so much as unionize, I don't think you're going to find more than a handful on the other end of that spectrum who are born entrepreneurs. (Indeed, it's almost as if they had that kind of spirit and skillset in the first place, they wouldn't have gone to law school in a bid to get a secure, if unglamorous, middle class job.)<br /><br />On the same topic, can we talk about how you can't expect every human being on Earth to be an entrepreneur? And even if you could, this would be a sorry state of affairs, since 90-99% of our all-entrepreneur population would still just wind up frustrated wage workers (at best) anyway?Hunter Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925220178171355473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-27952158702139203642016-05-24T17:44:56.443-06:002016-05-24T17:44:56.443-06:00I'm not a robot without emotions.
I'm not...I'm not a robot without emotions. <br />I'm not what you see.<br />I've come to help you, with your problems, so we can be free.<br />I'm not a hero. I'm not the saviour. Forget what you know.<br />I'm just a man, whose circumstances, went beyond his control<br /><br />Beyond my control. We all need control<br />I need control. We all need control.<br /><br />I just need my client who blew the .22 to pay me.... so I can go back to White Castle for dinner<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-59674593575457869802016-05-24T14:57:16.671-06:002016-05-24T14:57:16.671-06:00such as founding an e-discovery company or creatin...<i>such as founding an e-discovery company or creating a software process that makes law firms more efficient and effective.</i><br /><br />And the legal academy, which is well known for leaving its graduates with large pools of available capital and well-developed software programming skills, is perfectly adapted to help these people.Stonemason, Esq.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67996630436252091672016-05-24T13:48:53.857-06:002016-05-24T13:48:53.857-06:00"There is tremendous potential for law gradua..."There is tremendous potential for law graduates to fill new niches in the legal industry, such as founding an e-discovery company or creating a software process that makes law firms more efficient and effective."<br /><br />A person who had never set foot in a law school could do those things every bit as well. Indeed, millions of people could them better than the sorts of dolts that sign up for a bullshit JD from Suffolk.<br /><br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2332583178075085362016-05-23T14:08:34.605-06:002016-05-23T14:08:34.605-06:00You think we will take it on the chin? What's ...You think we will take it on the chin? What's going to happen with self-driving cars take over? Think of all the folks who earn a living driving and the collateral professions and work. Everybody from PI attorneys to adjusters, to Insurance defense, repair people, new car production (to replace banged up cars), traffic court judges and prosecutors, aftermarket parts, sign companies, doctors, chiro---millions and millions depend on the automobile and its residual spin offs for work. 80% of my legal defense work is auto related.... when somebody fucks up behind the wheel. With no "me" around and no need for prosecutors, because IBM and Apple are perfect, there will be no need for Judges. Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73100741615587676102016-05-23T11:16:03.615-06:002016-05-23T11:16:03.615-06:00Computers make legal research far easier for all, ...Computers make legal research far easier for all, but the lay person still won't understand the law, the rules of evidence, the rules of civil procedure, nor will a machine try a case. Reading case law and statutory law makes sense to us because we have legal training and experience. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-68539674354303663372016-05-23T10:34:50.771-06:002016-05-23T10:34:50.771-06:00I think the point is not that the machines will ma...I think the point is not that the machines will make the entire profession obsolete, but rather that a.i. is going to take away a ton of billable lawyer time and shrink the profession. I don't know how anyone could even argue otherwise. Every year in practice, I note that a machine would be competent to handle a smaller and smaller percentage of my work. Initially I would have been completely fungible. A machine would have been better suited to do almost anything I was doing. Now, I would trust a machine with about half. But now the people beneath me are billing for that work where a machine would do it more efficiently and effectively. <br /><br />I suspect dybbuk would agree that the rise of a.i. will hurt everyone badly. No matter what, business will be lost at every level. But it will especially harm those who do general work for cost sensitive smaller clients, and will especially harm new lawyers. But the schools will continue to pump them out. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49437857533630089322016-05-23T09:43:21.755-06:002016-05-23T09:43:21.755-06:00Nothing. It's not gonna happen. Folks seek ou...Nothing. It's not gonna happen. Folks seek out lawyers for their seasoned judgment and experience. If it were just about "facts, case law," and statutes, we would have been replaced by Univacs a long time ago. My practice is a lot more than just data and systematic results. The number #1 skill a good lawyer has in her quiver is the ability to get along and work with others in a complex system. The "law" is irrelevant in many circumstances. One may know the cases, but if you continually piss off the prosecutor, what good will that do for your client who blows a .22 after hitting three cars at the White Castle drive thru?Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance Kingnoreply@blogger.com