tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4851338539292815185..comments2024-03-18T11:05:17.083-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Real numbers applied to the bait and switch of law school conditional "scholarships" **UPDATED**Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78682660032145370992013-09-11T18:46:42.075-06:002013-09-11T18:46:42.075-06:00Anon, schools have to publish the amount of studen...Anon, schools have to publish the amount of students get scholarships. <br /><br />Akron's latest publicly available data is here: https://officialguide.lsac.org/RELEASE/SchoolsABAData/SchoolPage/SchoolPage_Info/ABA_LawSchoolData.aspx?sid=1<br /><br />It shows that 232/318, over 2/3, receive scholarships. Most are less than half, and the median grant is 10K. Antirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13353794908230833127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-16035257896099885582013-09-10T01:09:23.550-06:002013-09-10T01:09:23.550-06:00Yes I see how this would work - although I wonder ...Yes I see how this would work - although I wonder how many students actually pay full sticker. Perhaps the schools offer these discounts to a great many students, knowing this will make them feel like they are getting a bargain (old sales trick). Of course the above median students would get the far better discounts.<br /><br />And the term scholarship really has a prestige, a cachet too it. I get the impression at one point these were only offered to the very best and brightest. Perhaps many other people still get that impression to, so when they are offered a "scholarship" it makes them feel like an extra-special snowflake (when in reality its nothing more than a routine discount).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-87437486797374743942013-09-09T08:37:21.639-06:002013-09-09T08:37:21.639-06:00Brian Tamanaha calls these kind of scholarships &q...Brian Tamanaha calls these kind of scholarships "reverse robin hood" because it redistributes the discounts from full-sticker paying students with median or below medican credentials to those who are more likely to rank higher, get the better signalers, get the better jobs, etc.Antirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13353794908230833127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-40405673361252275612013-09-09T07:37:19.306-06:002013-09-09T07:37:19.306-06:00It's simple. Put all scholarship students in ...It's simple. Put all scholarship students in the same section, and grade on a durve within sections. If you are 80th percentile in the scholarship section, you lose your acholarship. If you are #1 in a non-scholarship section, you don't get one. A nice rachet effect.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49410784393401053642013-09-09T04:31:16.376-06:002013-09-09T04:31:16.376-06:00They may be the heart, but the soul of the scam is...They may be the heart, but the soul of the scam is located at HYS.<br /><br />They set the parameters for acceptable pricing and invent the rhetoric to support it.<br /><br />They set the tone for curriculum and pedagogy.<br /><br />Their acceptance of the 3-yr model makes it unthinkable to change.<br /><br />If tomorrow H and Y cut tuition in half, apologized for overcharging, threw away the worthless classes (law and literature), and went to an undergrad or 2-year model --<br /><br />THINGS WOULD CHANGE FAST further down the food chain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75065998384222833772013-09-09T04:20:32.056-06:002013-09-09T04:20:32.056-06:00The law schools would add a 4th and 5th year to la...The law schools would add a 4th and 5th year to law school if they could. The 5L curriculum would of course prepare students for international human rights practice, litigation involving outer space, and representing sports stars in contract negotiation.<br /><br />And the TLS kids would line up for it! They have the wisdom and mental maturity of kindergarteners.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-68203528662650439732013-09-09T02:42:09.687-06:002013-09-09T02:42:09.687-06:00Amen. That's the truth.Amen. That's the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7558683888495908632013-09-09T00:53:28.729-06:002013-09-09T00:53:28.729-06:00To call these discounts "scholarships" i...To call these discounts "scholarships" is a little misleading to me. Here's one definition of scholarship from dictionary.com:<br /><br />"a sum of money or other aid granted to a student, because of merit, need, etc., to pursue his or her studies."<br /><br />This is probably what scholarship implies to many people - an actual financial grant given to deserving student. Instead the colleges merely give discounts which take their tuition from hugely overpriced to a little less overpriced. And attach all sorts of convoluted terms and conditions to them. <br /><br />This is a sleazy sales tactic. Why don't they just reduce their base tuition instead (although if a law school ever did reduce their tuition, I would look carefully to see if they had jacked up their other fees to compensate).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58281056522045598372013-09-08T21:26:32.656-06:002013-09-08T21:26:32.656-06:00The real heart of the scam isn't Thom. Cooley,...The real heart of the scam isn't Thom. Cooley, it's schools like McGeorge, Hofstra, Brooklyn, Santa Clara, Chicago-Kent, Catholic, George Mason, etc. Schools that have enough reputation to ensnare quality applicants into high debt/low employment traps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85583442324452015802013-09-08T19:32:02.755-06:002013-09-08T19:32:02.755-06:00I made a post slightly disagreeing with this, but ...I made a post slightly disagreeing with this, but your post made me look at Akron's stuff a LOT closer and I realized that they only re-up scholarships to those in the top 10-15%, or a 3.4 at their school. Antirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13353794908230833127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-47526147051006157482013-09-08T19:29:58.031-06:002013-09-08T19:29:58.031-06:00OT but I think worth sharing -
"Law schools ...OT but I think worth sharing -<br /><br />"Law schools are a kind of a pedagogical North Korea (totally backward, but in a cheerful denial about it): their use of one-time, high-stakes instruments for assessment and the Socratic Method already prove that. The ranking approach is the most insidious one, as it creates incentives not only to compete with your peers, but to actively hurt them. Come to Law School — We’ll turn you into pedagogical Tonya Hardings!"<br /><br />http://s6034.p9.sites.pressdns.com/competitions/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34564512599612519122013-09-08T18:37:28.229-06:002013-09-08T18:37:28.229-06:00History repeats itself in more than one way:
http...History repeats itself in more than one way:<br /><br />http://balkin.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-proposal-for-2-year-law-degree-deja.html<br /><br />"Dean Michael Sovern of Columbia rejected the scheme [2 years for law school] on the ground that it would increase the supply of lawyers at the very moment THERE WAS A GLUT" <br /><br />(all caps added)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-68548202232886928882013-09-08T17:54:03.269-06:002013-09-08T17:54:03.269-06:00Don't keep us in suspense. What do you think ...Don't keep us in suspense. What do you think is going on here? Scholarships being given to those most likely to lose them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-64737354708281075882013-09-08T17:52:26.200-06:002013-09-08T17:52:26.200-06:00On your last point. "This brings me to my fin...On your last point. "This brings me to my final point about Akron: who are they giving their scholarships to? If they gave most of their scholarships to students who you would expect to be be in the top of their class, they would have a much higher retention rate." I don't know specifically about Akron, but in general, the system is set up so there will be a low retention rate. With the law school curve, there is no way that all the merit scholarship holders can retain their scholarships. In other words, more students get scholarships than can retain them; there just aren't enough spots within the gpa cutoff and the curve. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63826073474323071092013-09-08T17:47:17.750-06:002013-09-08T17:47:17.750-06:00Guess what? Law school deans don't like Obama&...Guess what? Law school deans don't like Obama's idea about law school being 2 years:<br /> <br />http://www.mndaily.com/news/campus/2013/09/05/law-schools-third-year-too-crucial-lose<br /><br /><br />I'm shocked!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79866778376207232002013-09-08T17:16:27.892-06:002013-09-08T17:16:27.892-06:00And you too can be a debt trophy once they take aw...And you too can be a debt trophy once they take away your tuition discount.<br /><br />And they won't even stuff your head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-40806225480063967342013-09-08T15:05:48.714-06:002013-09-08T15:05:48.714-06:00Great post. I'm not surprised to see Hofstra ...Great post. I'm not surprised to see Hofstra on the list. Nora Demleitner was running a merit scholarship bait and switch when I was at Hofstra. I knew a lot of people who lost their scholarships. How can law schools expect to turn out ethical graduates when they're not ethical themselves? Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54120473171427381992013-09-08T14:51:50.065-06:002013-09-08T14:51:50.065-06:00this is a great post. probably the best one in my ...this is a great post. probably the best one in my opinion. i didnt finish reading it, but the fact that you referenced that UVA video and the NYT article was enough for me. and the term "hyper-informed," which describes why I didn't even bother studying for the LSAT even though I planned out the studying routine for. <br /><br />i remember the first time i read that NYT article and I almost threw up. First time in my life i ever felt repulsed reading an article. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com