tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4748495948580381754..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: What a Depressing News CycleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2620921032163617422013-06-07T23:09:20.873-06:002013-06-07T23:09:20.873-06:00That's a very widely known rule of thumb. I...That's a very widely known rule of thumb. I'm going through Nando's site looking through his reviews of these awful law schools which all seem to charge a minimum of $30k per year. I'm sure a lot of 0Ls have heard of this rule of thumb. How do they justify taking on $100k+ of debt? <br /><br />Do they all think they will get into BigLaw? Are they all banking on IBR? Or are they so in love with the (perceived) glamor and prestige of getting a law degree that they are simply *not thinking* about what they are doing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70073433375234305602013-06-07T15:01:29.934-06:002013-06-07T15:01:29.934-06:00There was a cute note on Top-Law-Schools (which I ...There was a cute note on Top-Law-Schools (which I had, happily, ignored for some time) to the effect that how-dare-you-charge-people-for-this. This was in response to a fairly innocuous post by Cooper, and despite a $2.99 [!] price for the book Con Law. Sigh. I didn't have the patience to re-open my account to post a note to the effect, "And you will be declining your salary when you start your job?"<br /><br />Me thinks the game is nearly lost, if supposedly those among the most intelligent we have on tap are this ignorant, ill-informed, and just plain dumb. (Not to mention foul-keyboarded and alarmingly incoherent.) This applies to professors as well, apparently, minus the expletives.<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-35563439772915008432013-06-07T14:50:55.374-06:002013-06-07T14:50:55.374-06:00Anons All: Quite right. The issue for many colle...Anons All: Quite right. The issue for many college graduates, I think, is that military service is so far removed from even a possibility, we seem to have a red-blue distinction as it relates to even the concept of joining the military. (There's some dispute as to the origins of "red"/"blue," but it always struck me that these were exactly wrongly applied: the deep blue is conservative, while the, ah, "red" is not. = : )<br /><br />It's been many years for me (OTS, 1980s), so I'm hardly the right one to comment, but for anyone under 28, getting a guaranteed paycheck, even if it's *not* JAG, is nothing to sneeze at. Moreover, back in the day there were programs where one could enlist at, say, 18, serve in the reserves, then get a scholarship for college, gain a commission, put in additional time for that, and "retire" at 38. If I knew then what I know now . . . .<br /><br />Presumably these *are* rather selective now, but isn't that law school, too? In short, advice to anyone who could qualify is run, don't walk, to this option. If you can.<br /><br />And to Anon 10:35, where do we sign up for the free money . . . ? = : )Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2054897191271416862013-06-07T13:49:29.832-06:002013-06-07T13:49:29.832-06:00I'm 40 and I post here, but I take your point....I'm 40 and I post here, but I take your point. Some of my ancient(!) friends don't really use the Web.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-44906089570884594472013-06-07T13:22:47.630-06:002013-06-07T13:22:47.630-06:00You want to hear truly depressing:
It's only ...You want to hear truly depressing:<br /><br />It's only the 35-and-under set that are moaning on these "evil scam blogs" <br /><br />The older boomer lawyers are having problems getting/keeping paying clients and making their bills, too.... but they don't blog. They're pre-blog, pre-'zine, and pre-net, and still believe they're hip because the use "the World Wide Web, and are up-to-date on the Google."<br /><br />Christ! If the boomers only blogged, the depressing amount of legal news on here would simply shut-down your computer. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63501394833387989072013-06-07T09:53:02.681-06:002013-06-07T09:53:02.681-06:00^ If you're 28, the service academies really w...^ If you're 28, the service academies really won't take you. It's actually against their rules. <br /><br />If you already have a college degree, it'd be kind of dumb to spend 4 years getting an additional one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24108680885792611742013-06-07T07:56:48.485-06:002013-06-07T07:56:48.485-06:00Military service is also getting more exclusive on...Military service is also getting more exclusive on the enlistment. It's not exactly a cakewalk for a 28-year old pudgy law grad to get enlisted.<br /><br />The academies are out of the question entirely. If you don't have some connections/backing out of high school, that ship has sailed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2218236061740828332013-06-07T07:42:49.450-06:002013-06-07T07:42:49.450-06:00Force the law professors to work for free. They ba...Force the law professors to work for free. They basically think that everything else should be given away for free (or perhaps at cost). Make them put that into practice. <br /><br />If they refuse, put them in prison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-88768914625599645632013-06-07T07:18:07.922-06:002013-06-07T07:18:07.922-06:00There's a difference in joining the military a...There's a difference in joining the military and being commissioned. OCS, West Point, Naval Academy, USAF Academy, etc. They're all very selective. USMA is a math and science institute. Most of my friends who were able to attend did. Additionally, GE, Home Depot, Coke, etc. love West Point graduates (for post separation employment). OCS is highly competitive. On the other hand, enlisting in the military is an entirely different conversation (retiring as a Master Chief after 20 years is still a bit of a struggle).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-52017297571952550702013-06-07T07:13:06.536-06:002013-06-07T07:13:06.536-06:00Are there any solutions to these issues? Are there any solutions to these issues? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-13671420823510563362013-06-07T06:53:23.566-06:002013-06-07T06:53:23.566-06:00IBR and public service aside.
Someone commented o...IBR and public service aside.<br /><br />Someone commented on ILSS a while back with a basic rule of thumb that said that in order to service the debt in the standard way, the salary coming out of school should be equal to the debt.<br /><br />Maybe it is all as simple as that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8820432108378991392013-06-07T00:29:49.103-06:002013-06-07T00:29:49.103-06:00"Or maybe take a page from the 60's and h..."Or maybe take a page from the 60's and have Occupy Law School...."<br /><br /><br />Occupy Law School. Now there's turning the tables on 'em. <br /><br />Maybe we could also get some law professors from the 1960s too; they tended to actually know how to practice law. (Foolishly, the stodgy old guard let in the barbarians, er, New Age professors. Mary Ann Glendon wrote an interesting book, A Nation Under Lawyers: How the Crisis in the Legal Profession Is Transforming American Society, that goes into detail about this decline.)<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76109673907970944752013-06-06T23:35:25.399-06:002013-06-06T23:35:25.399-06:00^ How DARE you tell us to join the military!
We ...^ How DARE you tell us to join the military! <br /><br />We don't want to work! We want money and health care benefits! Moneymoneymoney! Fork it over, so we can stimulate the economy with our spending!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67741761343434351602013-06-06T23:15:12.492-06:002013-06-06T23:15:12.492-06:00Depressing, indeed. There is an interesting histo...Depressing, indeed. There is an interesting history behind the non-discharchability of student debt, which began in 1976 and was toughened in 1990, 1998, and again in 2005. While it's not strictly true that student-loan debt is non-dischargeable, it is nearly so. (The standard is laid out in the Brunner test, from Brunner v. NY State Higher Ed....) Rumor has it there were legion urban legends about graduates walking away from debt, while one account has it that a senior official had done just that, thumbing his nose at Congress. That'll teach 'em.<br /><br />A most interesting analogy to an indenture. The debt-forgiveness programs might seem to lend further credence to this: do what we like and we will release you, bit by bit, from the terms of your "service."<br /><br />In years past I would casually toss out the option of military service, which of course has grown distant for many Americans, and perhaps for most who attend college. It seems, however, that these are the only students (aside from children of the extremely wealthy) who have any real chance at avoiding massive debt loads. They have the further benefit of maturity, structure, and drive; while many are not in the running for biglaw, nor would they want it. I've known exceptions, but most opt for an administrative law judge position in some leafy suburb. <br /><br />For anyone contemplating law school (or college or any other graduate school), consider seriously military service. Among other reasons, there are programs (or there used to be) where the branch would provide full tuition benefits, plus full pay (!), to attend law school. Very limited, and very hard to get. But full pay. Zero cost. And you serve a few additional years. Retire in 20, and start a second career as an ALJ. Retire again, and collect multiple, quite generous pensions. And, on a substantive note, the work was often more interesting than most attorneys ever see.<br /><br />Clearly this is *very* competitive now, in part because (I suspect) much of the benefits go to those already on the inside.<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-65986546152243605222013-06-06T22:26:51.159-06:002013-06-06T22:26:51.159-06:00These depressing articles about the toxicity of st...These depressing articles about the toxicity of student loans suggest that it might be in order to stage Informal Pickets at a selected law school(s) to coincide with the fabled 1st Week of Fall classes. E.g., "Did you know excessive debt is killing you?" "If you didn't pay cash, you're gonna crash."<br /><br />Or maybe take a page from the 60's and have Occupy Law School where there are teach-ins about this subject. Scared Straight Out of Law School?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com