tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4596651746126117081..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: ABA to Finally Audit Law School Employment ReportingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24905731294417078992016-06-20T00:53:59.319-06:002016-06-20T00:53:59.319-06:00As arbitrarily defined by You Ass News, the so-cal...As arbitrarily defined by <i>You Ass News</i>, the so-called tiers misrepresent reality. They link school #50 to Harvard and Yale while removing it from school #51. That makes no sense.<br /><br />A proper ranking, if one could exist, would be based on meaningful criteria, not arbitrary cut-offs. For example, the meaningful criterion of at least a 50% chance of getting a federal clerkship or a job in a big law firm (the sorts of positions that might generate enough income to support the payments on student loans) is satisfied by only 13 law schools. All others would have to go into the fourth tier.<br /><br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-69894848263655195142016-06-19T23:12:00.938-06:002016-06-19T23:12:00.938-06:00The ABA audit is WAY too little, WAY too late. Obv...The ABA audit is WAY too little, WAY too late. Obviously the restoration of public confidence in law school employment outcomes data is not very high on ABA's "to-do" list.Old Ruster from JDJunkyardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01223553546778880542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-25874932624839448122016-06-19T14:03:15.679-06:002016-06-19T14:03:15.679-06:00I appreciate your level of gluttony.
This is one ...I appreciate your level of gluttony.<br /><br />This is one of those articles where I wasn't sure if I was being overly harsh on a good-faith initiative or being too lenient on my gut instinct that it was a bogus initiative.<br /><br />If I'm reading this correctly, schools basically have a stamp of approval to purposefully inflate the numbers on every 20th student or so. That's basically green lighting intentional fraud.Law School Truth Centerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166092871374037640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79727481822270856132016-06-19T13:51:57.949-06:002016-06-19T13:51:57.949-06:00I suspect, but do not know, that the 382 sample si...I suspect, but do not know, that the 382 sample size was developed on the premise that it seems like it would be around the 95% or higher confidence level on a population size of 40k.<br /><br />I'm not a statistician and only took a course on the subject way back when, but I think the problem is that fudging the numbers isn't homogenous across the population, either in how the numbers are fudged or what types of students/schools are more likely to have fudged numbers. A school like Boston College or GWU or Emory approaches the statistics differently than Cooley or TJLS.<br /><br />I really think they should have stratified the schools into different categories, i.e., audit 1 school from Tier 1, 2-3 from Tier 2, and the remainder from Tiers 3-4. View them as distinct populations because - as well all know - they are distinct populations. Equating a Harvard graduate and a Suffolk graduate as being equally susceptible to employment reporting fraud is intellectual dishonest and counterproductive towards getting to actual transparency.Law School Truth Centerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166092871374037640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8192645002294034352016-06-18T08:54:35.409-06:002016-06-18T08:54:35.409-06:00The pigs will audit less than 5% of the accredited...The pigs will audit less than 5% of the accredited diploma mills, and 382 random rape victims. Seeing that there will be around 40,000 grads for that class, this is pathetic. Hell, that is a tiny sample size. That's the equivalent of judging a beauty contest by rating the participants' feet or calves.<br /><br />I suspect that the cockroaches will $omehow make sure to include several top law schools or relatively strong regional schools, i.e. Iowa, Minnesota, Vanderbilt, among the 10 "randomly selected" schools. This audit is worth less than a TTT law degree. Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-19097807081668814152016-06-18T01:19:37.455-06:002016-06-18T01:19:37.455-06:00About ten years ago, the bar in England and Wales ...About ten years ago, the bar in England and Wales lost the power to regulate itself, precisely because it was neglecting the job. Instead, a commission appointed by the government now regulates the legal profession.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-86455053639868601332016-06-18T00:52:06.260-06:002016-06-18T00:52:06.260-06:00But the difference is those joke agencies cannot b...But the difference is those joke agencies cannot be accused by the USDOJ of trying to keep competition out of the accredidation business, while the lawyers who run the ABA were successfully accused of stifling potential competitors. Obviously, in the hopelessly glutted legal "profession" that is absurd but the Equal Protection Clause prevents DOJ from making such distinctions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-61702682757093121372016-06-17T22:53:26.703-06:002016-06-17T22:53:26.703-06:00Independent's not enough. The joke accreditati...Independent's not enough. The joke accreditation agencies that accredit undergraduate schools are independent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-25836924553839337082016-06-17T10:34:28.906-06:002016-06-17T10:34:28.906-06:00More to your point, the overarching problem here i...More to your point, the overarching problem here is that a trade association was given control of admission to the trade instead of an independent accrediting body, which teed up anti-trust action by the USDOJ. That lead to a consent decree that basically forced the ABA to accredit every college or university that thought it could make a fortune running a law school and had the wherewithal to finance the acquisition of a library and a building.<br /><br />Until the ABA has zero involvement with law schools the problem cannot be solved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34227323157068161842016-06-16T07:50:18.379-06:002016-06-16T07:50:18.379-06:00Foxes guarding the henhouse. The auditors should b...Foxes guarding the henhouse. The auditors should be independent. I set no store by an "audit" conducted by an organization run largely by law-school scamsters.<br /><br />This "audit" serves as a publicity stunt, not a genuine effort to protect lemmings from lies.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-9307906418312850912016-06-16T02:00:33.690-06:002016-06-16T02:00:33.690-06:00I am a glutton for this sort of thing, so apologie...I am a glutton for this sort of thing, so apologies for a way-too-long comment. <br /><br />The ABA auditing protocol seems disturbingly weak, especially in light of the wrongdoing that was commonplace prior to the mandatory employment survey. <br /><br />First, the ABA is only random auditing 10 schools, meaning that 194 will make It through the year with no visit from ABA auditors. True, the ABA is also asking for data for 382 randomly selected students from 156 law schools. But that is only 2 to 3 students per school, and such a small sample is unlikely to uncover a pattern of wrongdoing, especially when it is likely that even cheaters are only miscategorizing the employment results of a minority of their grads. <br /><br />Second, the ABA auditing protocol has three levels, of which only the first level is mandatory. At Level 1, “Documentation included in the Files will be presumed to be complete, accurate, and not misleading in the absence of credible evidence to the contrary.” With a presumption like that in its favor, even an outright scammer would have to be extremely blatant, sloppy, or unlucky to get tripped up. <br /><br />Third, an audit only proceeds to Level 2 if “more than 5%” of the files are found to be incomplete, inaccurate, or misleading. So apparently a law school is safe from ABA sanction, or even serious inquiry, if a mere 4% of its files are inaccurate in a way that bolsters the law school’s employment results. <br /><br />Fourth, employment result scamming might be difficult to prove, even with a conscientious Level 2 audit (independent confirmation of employment outcome data for 20% of the class) or Level 3 audit (independently review and confirmation all of the school’s reported employment data). Why? Because not every ten-month-out JD fills out the placement survey, and law schools are permitted to guess the employment status of non-responsive grads from comments related to employment status on social networking sites, such as Facebook and Linked-In. (See link below) So a desperate or humiliated grad might pretend on Facebook or some other social media site that he or she has a good job, and the lousy law school he or she graduated from can report that as a successful outcome. <br /> <br />http://www.nalp.org/lseotf_bestpract_1st<br /><br />If Currier refuses to release the audit results, he should be transparent enough to inform us how many of the 10 ABA audits made it past level one review.<br />dybbuk123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08142974443119061724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-69001303711302304572016-06-15T21:37:30.369-06:002016-06-15T21:37:30.369-06:00aint shit gonna change. this is like when the NBA ...aint shit gonna change. this is like when the NBA audits/reviews a flop, hits the player with a $5k penalty for flopping, and that player's team wins the NBA championship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80077788740002398492016-06-15T21:28:45.182-06:002016-06-15T21:28:45.182-06:00If you reported that the FTC, Senator Warren or th...If you reported that the FTC, Senator Warren or that our Attorney General was investigating, I would be impressed. The ABA, give me a break. The ABA is nothing more than trade group similar to the National Retail Federation, American Truckers Association, National Restaurant Association, North American Auto Dealers Association, and on and on... What do they do? Host an annual trade show where you can pick up candy and stress balls from West? The best thing GW Bush did was "de-authorize" the ABA from having any significant influence or veto power over Supreme Court nominees.Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance Kingnoreply@blogger.com