tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4251151892595485129..comments2024-03-28T07:16:35.912-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Tamanaha Tears a New OneUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33119457974691175062013-05-03T21:50:22.284-06:002013-05-03T21:50:22.284-06:00Well, I read the whole thing, and a couple of time...Well, I read the whole thing, and a couple of times I found that I thought Tamanaha had understated the financial issues facing students - not intentionally - just actually. <br /><br />PAYE/ IBR, can result in a grad paying *more* than the original loan + principle balance that he/she would have paid had he/she been able to make payments on the original 10-yr schedule. Which is what happens when you've got a compound interest rate and you double the term of the loan. <br /><br />Also, carry large loan balances make all other credit a grad obtains thereafter (if he/she is not ineligible for more credit) much more expensive. Ask whomever you like, the unavailability of efficient credit markets for the "poor" keeps them mired in poverty, while the "middle class" and "rich" are able to smooth out downturns,finance large purchases of quality (new car instead of a used car + repairs that end up meaning the used car was more expensive than leasing a BMW) and ultimately get ahead or get more ahead. <br /><br />The collateral consequences of this debt mean 'the system' did not just create a new generation of new poor grads, it condemned their eggs and sperm to the same. Poverty is inherited. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6106066375226745442013-05-03T10:37:07.712-06:002013-05-03T10:37:07.712-06:00^ But they aren't handing their bills to me. I...^ But they aren't handing their bills to me. I'm fine with the law the way it is. <br /><br />You are the one who is bitching. So pay your bills, already!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29033192443355844412013-05-03T08:16:09.135-06:002013-05-03T08:16:09.135-06:00This confusion about "liberal" behavior ...This confusion about "liberal" behavior is more clear when you understand that there is no difference between mainstream democrats and republicans. Two sides of the same corporate-controlled coin. Obama = Bush.<br /><br />The Neo-Con movement as it's known in America is referred to as Neo-Liberalism in the rest of the world. That should tell you something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-43377608585338940352013-05-03T05:05:11.304-06:002013-05-03T05:05:11.304-06:00Why would I stop "sorry-ass-bitching"? ...Why would I stop "sorry-ass-bitching"? According to you, I ought to be sorry-ass bitching about all the defaulters "welshing" on their debts and handing their bills to me, expecting ME to pay. Individual circumstances are irrelevant, and there's no such thing as good faith. There are only bill-payers, and damn dirty welshing DEFAULTERS. <br /><br />That's how the mind of the righteous operates. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-10934750608180724322013-05-02T20:57:03.754-06:002013-05-02T20:57:03.754-06:00Here's a couple more blog posts on Demleitner:...Here's a couple more blog posts on Demleitner:<br /><br />http://lawschoolscam.com/blog/index.php?/archives/19-Nora-Demleitner-A-Tribute-to-German-Industriousness.html<br />"In response to one line in a letter to the editor in the St. Louis newspaper encouraging law schools to come to grips with the reality that there aren't enough jobs written by a recent graduate, Dean Demleitner felt the need to write the St. Louis paper and defend Washington & Lee's honor. . . . [Referring to Demleitner's letter] This is wonderfully artful misdirection and surely the product of a superior education. Of course, the only real market demand in the profession is that their students be graduates of much nicer schools; while having vestiges of pseudo-prestige, Washington & Lee is a notorious trap school that gets squeezed out by Virginia, Georgetown, and of course Harvard and Yale and Duke. Since she went to Yale and apparently used her degree to get by without ever actually working in a law firm or doing anything that resembles the traditional practice of law, she surely knows this."<br /><br />http://bryanjohnsonblog.wordpress.com/tag/dean-demleitner/<br />"First, some background information. Only 78.8 % of the class of 2009 passed the bar, compared with the New York State average of 87.6 %. Dean Demleitner was worried, so much in fact that she wrote a panicked e-mail to the newly recruited class of 2012, with the clear intention of preventing them from transferring out:<br /><br />"As members of the class of 2012, you are part of an academic and cultural revolution at Hofstra Law School. Your class joined the School under revised admissions criteria of higher GPAs and LSAT scores (analysis shows a strong correlation between bar exam success and higher LSAT scores)."<br /><br />Yes, Dean Demleitner told the class of 2012 that they are better than the classes of 2011 and 2010. Apart from the internal chuckle I enjoyed from the preposterous use of “cultural revolution”, I was incensed. This insulting e-mail was another piece fitting into a disturbing pattern–one of Hofstra Law School’s willingness to exploit its students at any cost just so that it can raise its ranking. It began with our acceptance into Hofstra.<br /><br />I received an acceptance letter from Hofstra Law School; the words written lauded me as a great student. I was purportedly so great that I was offered a “Merit Scholarship” for $20,000. To make me blush with pride, the letter even invited me to come to special dinners exclusively for merit scholarship holders. All I had to do was maintain a 3.25 GPA. Being that I had a 3.5 during my undergraduate years, it seemed a manageable task. During the first year, I became suspicious. Almost everyone else had a merit scholarship as well. Much was clarified later on.<br /><br />This was not a merit scholarship; it was a bait and switch. Hofstra lured in high-statistic students with the honey of money fully cognizant that many of those same students would be filling their coffers once the first year expired. It was a statistical certainty; the curve grading policy ensures it. For example, if a class of 100 all scores a final grade of over 80%, a concrete percentage of them will still receive grades of Cs and C-s. That’s not a grade based on merit. They used us to up their ranking. Once it was up, they pulled the proverbial rug out from under us. In 2008, the conversations I had with Associate Director of Enrollment Management, Seth Kritzman, and Dean Miriam Albert dispelled any of my doubts on what Hofstra did: fraudulent misrepresentation."<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-38409045019270909392013-05-02T20:41:48.210-06:002013-05-02T20:41:48.210-06:00In fairness, I doubt there is a person here who wo...In fairness, I doubt there is a person here who would have handled it any differently. "Oh, a pay raise? Yippee!" <br /><br />Redistribution is not a solution. Human nature is not going to allow it. This includes law profs. They aren't exceptions to the rule. <br /><br />The best solution is to educate the market and let the chips fall where they may.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-60868674813722227412013-05-02T20:28:12.993-06:002013-05-02T20:28:12.993-06:00I make this argument a lot indicting higher ed in ...I make this argument a lot indicting higher ed in general: that it is immensely ironic that one of the institutions that the Left has had a near-stranglehold on: higher ed, is in the shape that it is, and the people who benefit the most from it are the wealthy and the well-connected.Antirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13353794908230833127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49995625877533140432013-05-02T20:27:40.453-06:002013-05-02T20:27:40.453-06:00If your loans are in repayment, then you should st...If your loans are in repayment, then you should stop your sorry-ass bitching and just pay them off eventually. <br /><br />Little Injun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-26639995729661131862013-05-02T20:20:43.803-06:002013-05-02T20:20:43.803-06:00And let me say that the comments to this article a...And let me say that the comments to this article are worth a read.R A Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11322841515992550220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78423825507399293732013-05-02T20:16:35.254-06:002013-05-02T20:16:35.254-06:00Here's an article in the ABA Journal entitled ...Here's an article in the ABA Journal entitled "Leftist Law Professors' Stayed Silent on High Tuition While Enjoying 'Sweet Ride' Says Law Professor.<br /><br />http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/jaccuse_law_prof_says_hypocrite_liberal_colleagues_stayed_silent_on_high_tu/R A Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11322841515992550220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-61929340733472688172013-05-02T19:19:02.351-06:002013-05-02T19:19:02.351-06:00"I just don't see why the taxpayers shoul..."I just don't see why the taxpayers should be punished in your stead, that's all."<br /><br />In MY stead? My student loans are in repayment, chief. I have a full-time job.<br /><br />Sorry you're feeling so persecuted. Apparently, every person who files for bankruptcy is a direct offense against you, who personally bears the weight of their sins like a fiscal Jesus Christ. <br /><br />By all means, please continue strutting around the yard, clucking away about your moral superiority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85799865505337526432013-05-02T18:51:47.177-06:002013-05-02T18:51:47.177-06:00^ By that logic, then, neither are the people who ...^ By that logic, then, neither are the people who took out the loans.<br /><br />Game, set, and match.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67496059284576647702013-05-02T18:45:09.532-06:002013-05-02T18:45:09.532-06:00Much better now.Much better now.Benny Hananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-84621642687054088662013-05-02T17:42:11.913-06:002013-05-02T17:42:11.913-06:00They're not being "punished." At al...They're not being "punished." At all.Docnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39111639659570047702013-05-02T16:10:15.436-06:002013-05-02T16:10:15.436-06:00No, I just don't see why the taxpayers should ...No, I just don't see why the taxpayers should be punished in your stead, that's all. That's not exactly an unreasonable view - unlike, say, wanting to present the taxpayers with a six-figure bill for your worthless education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-69512795511678055912013-05-02T16:04:57.126-06:002013-05-02T16:04:57.126-06:00How does your brother-in-law contribute to society...How does your brother-in-law contribute to society, you ask? <br /><br />By spending money. <br /><br />Lots of it. You already told us that he lives in a $600K house, drives a new Volvo, and sends his kids to a private school. <br /><br />Spending money (especially the money of other people) is supposedly what makes America strong now. <br /><br />In the Age of Obama, patriotism has never been so cheap. To be a good citizen, all you have to do is keep on shopping.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75443114268907277232013-05-02T15:47:31.700-06:002013-05-02T15:47:31.700-06:00Note to Adam B:
The name is T-A-M-A-N-A-H-A.Note to Adam B:<br /><br />The name is T-A-M-A-N-A-H-A.Benny Hananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-48872386085364723702013-05-02T15:06:08.089-06:002013-05-02T15:06:08.089-06:00Doc, in this case, the "I'm a taxpayer&qu...Doc, in this case, the "I'm a taxpayer" argument is a facade. The person making this argument simply has a hard-on for watching people endlessly and mercilessly punished for their mistakes. It has nothing to do with what is or isn't good public policy. It's all about the joy of watching sinners roasting in hell. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-53296570278914759582013-05-02T15:05:08.722-06:002013-05-02T15:05:08.722-06:00This a great, and brave, article by Tamahana. I...This a great, and brave, article by Tamahana. I'm a conservative myself who, after 7 years of Ivy league undergrad and T-14 law school, had just about zero respect for the "Crit" crowd and their fellow travelers. It is refreshing to read an article by someone like that who appears to take the positive aspects of that world view (theoretical support for social mobility, even if I think most of their favored means to that end cause more harm than good) seriously and with integrity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-30101219967471591312013-05-02T14:17:35.342-06:002013-05-02T14:17:35.342-06:00Yup, this article hits the nail on the head. My br...Yup, this article hits the nail on the head. My brother in law is a tenured law professor at a top ten law school out east, and has no conception that he is on top of a crusty dung heap and crapping on future generations. He lives in a $600K house, takes month-long summer sailing trips, has excellent health insurance and retirement plans, is constantly taking "work-related" vacations to places like Japan and the UK, drives a new Volvo (of course!), and sends his kids to private schools. <br />And he still complains that he is not getting paid enough. <br /><br />How do these jokers contribute in any meaningful way to society? I am not saying most lawyers contribute to society, but at least we don't cloak our words in self-aggrandizing BS and destroy the financial security of thousands of young people. And all this nonsense about how they are taking the noble route by foregoing lucrative partnerships at large law firms. Most law professors I knew barely had the social and general business skills to hang on for one ore two years in actual practice.<br /><br />And this nonsense about legal scholarship. What a load of dog-spunk. I don't remember who did this, but I believe about 50% of law review articles aren't cited even once. And they are not even peer-reviewed; they're just the ramblings of some ass-hat with too much time on his or her hands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74253824603050734202013-05-02T14:07:11.839-06:002013-05-02T14:07:11.839-06:00I'd love to hear more about this depression-st...I'd love to hear more about this depression-stick you are now shaking. Kind of reminds me of how Obama always likes to promise some kind of terrible economic miracle every time that he doesn't get his way. <br /><br />Let me guess: by being forced to pay back their just debts, graduates aren't "stimulating the economy." Because the lenders - as we all know - promptly set all of the money on fire as soon as they receive it. <br /><br />It sounds to me like you think America owes you big. It's actually the other way around - um, LITERALLY. LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39393506616028284992013-05-02T13:44:46.618-06:002013-05-02T13:44:46.618-06:00Exactly, Adam. The "I'm a taxpayer" ...Exactly, Adam. The "I'm a taxpayer" argument is also sort-of like when I hear people complain about funding others' retirements through social security.<br /><br />Earth to woe-is-me taxpayers: YOU PAY FOR BROKEN SOCIAL SYSTEMS NO MATTER WHAT.<br /><br />You're going to pay for the student loan disaster one way or another, so you might as well shift the loss to the lender and let the individual become a productive member of the economy again. Docnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62314694452230662772013-05-02T13:28:51.469-06:002013-05-02T13:28:51.469-06:00Well said, 9:46. I lean liberal, but the clusterf...Well said, 9:46. I lean liberal, but the clusterf**k that is higer-ed (and law school in paticular) is part of the larger reason a conservative stance can't be dismissed out of hand. <br /><br />And it at least demonstrates that there are a few LawProfs who acknowledge the problems with the current setup. I had been losing a lot of hope on that score.dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67740295374358269892013-05-02T13:25:38.804-06:002013-05-02T13:25:38.804-06:00You also were a taxpayer that let this whole syste...You also were a taxpayer that let this whole system run out of control by voting for legislators who exacerbated this problem. You will be responsible financially for the solution one way or the other whether it is due to long term economic depression or government sanctioned loan forgiveness.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63251812848077347212013-05-02T13:10:09.408-06:002013-05-02T13:10:09.408-06:00Adam, as the previous poster said, no change from ...Adam, as the previous poster said, no change from within (whether its AA, or anything else) is going to address this problem. Once in a while, a "Tamanaha" will speak treasonous words. But what are the odds that insiders will change themselves? They might toss some of their brethren to the dogs, but the machine will stay in control.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.com