tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post408040054593391638..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Whittier Law Professor Seval Yildirim asserts that bodies are important, but does that include Whittier's student body? Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-64319805842182839372013-09-10T21:39:04.070-06:002013-09-10T21:39:04.070-06:00Umm...unfortunately I graduated from whittier. An...Umm...unfortunately I graduated from whittier. And I can tell you that the porn thing is true. My friend was in the class when it happens. So..... Yeah. This is me being embarrassed to be a Whittier Alum and quietly fading back into the background. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-27083657457251211422013-08-05T09:19:11.011-06:002013-08-05T09:19:11.011-06:00Anonymous, sounds like you are a Whittier grad who...Anonymous, sounds like you are a Whittier grad who didn't get a job, who is prepared to completely distort the facts because you're sitting there eating donuts, and that the ad hominem attacks are made from a wealth of ignorance. Professor Yildirim is not only a brilliant scholar but a committed activist attempting to effectuate and evaluate social change. As to the Student body's valuation of Professor Yildirim--look at RatemyProfessor--her scores are off the chart excellent. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-25397166055042464312013-08-02T11:47:27.253-06:002013-08-02T11:47:27.253-06:00"I am simply someone who knows the facts...&q..."I am simply someone who knows the facts..." A little humility and careful consideration of facts would bolster your credibility. Professor Campos has already called you out on your misstatement regarding the ABA jobs report, which is published in the spring and which provides jobs data for 2012 graduates. (two misstatements there).<br /><br />Yyou write that the author needs "to look at some of the Top ranked Tier Two schools who have fallen to Tier 4 because of their poor and false reporting." Are you referring to Illinois and Villanova? Shameful conduct, but they have not fallen into "Tier 4." Another misstatement.<br /><br />"Clearly you have not been able to find work in the legal field because if you had, you would not have time to waste your time on this blog." <br /><br />The author can speak for him or herself. I'll speak for myself. Unlike you, I work in the legal field. As a lawyer. And unlike you, I've been forced to wade through hundreds of resumes from graduates with no legal experience. They have no hope. It is they who wasted their time (and treasure) in law school. Whittier is one of the great offenders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17263856813261822392013-08-02T11:16:35.397-06:002013-08-02T11:16:35.397-06:00He already answered your question: "The amaz...He already answered your question: "The amazing marketing that has come as a result and the people who are now flocking".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2129689363278695452013-08-02T11:14:46.820-06:002013-08-02T11:14:46.820-06:00Fascinating that we have common cause with the adm...Fascinating that we have common cause with the administrators on the tenure issue. My enemy's enemy is my friend?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-371630110485255882013-08-02T11:05:00.268-06:002013-08-02T11:05:00.268-06:00Yeah, I think you are right, dupednontraditional. ...Yeah, I think you are right, dupednontraditional. dybbuk123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08142974443119061724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62998020726080728712013-08-02T10:51:15.707-06:002013-08-02T10:51:15.707-06:00This administrator is wrong about the employment d...This administrator is wrong about the employment data. The ABA now publishes employment data for the previous year's class in the spring, not in October. Dybbuk is quoting the stats for the class of 2012, just as he said.Paul Camposnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63794627336084886632013-08-02T10:46:19.842-06:002013-08-02T10:46:19.842-06:00I've got to believe this "administrator&q...I've got to believe this "administrator" is no other than our favorite troll, Chris Knorps/Mr. Infinity. No law school staff/personnel would want to engage the scamblogs, even anonymously, nor disparage their students, as that just adds negative press and stirs the pot.<br /><br />Students looking at porn and lazy? Remove professor tenure? Previous Dean sucked? Scambloggers must by definition not be real attorneys? No, the condescending and holier-than-thou attitude towards the "loser more-ons," coupled with the need to white-knight any and all law skools because of his own fragile ego, is classic Mr. Infinity. dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21827677810864825422013-08-02T10:44:50.655-06:002013-08-02T10:44:50.655-06:00Would you explain WHY a law school needs a $2MM mo...Would you explain WHY a law school needs a $2MM mock courtroom? Do you really think that legal education is enhanced by such facades? You know, actual appellate lawyers do their mocks in their office's conference room or the cafeteria-- they just grab a mini-lectern, and move a few chairs around. They do not need a $2MM stage. dybbuk123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08142974443119061724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31122731328754136352013-08-02T10:42:27.673-06:002013-08-02T10:42:27.673-06:00I can't speak for the author of this piece, bu...I can't speak for the author of this piece, but the problem I see is that law profs are fiddling while Rome burns.<br /><br />The profession is crumbling, but law profs still draw huge salaries to teach 1-2 classes a semester and muse over things like "the human body as the site of resistance to the state" and "___ and the law."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-56479531716425445262013-08-02T10:14:03.052-06:002013-08-02T10:14:03.052-06:00I look forward to reviewing Whittier's ABA rep...I look forward to reviewing Whittier's ABA report in October, but you can hardly blame me for not knowing its contents before it has been issued.<br /><br />No problem with accepting a tiny number of low LSAT/UGPA students who have somehow indicated in other ways that they have potential. However, with Whittier, most admitted students have dismal scores. <br /><br />At the 25th percentile, the LSAT/UGPA of the enrolled class of 2015 was 148 /2.70. 148 for those who do not know, is at the 36th percentile of test takers. If you move all the way up to the 75 percentile the Whittier Class of 2015, you get an LSAT of 153-- barely above average for test-takers. (link below). It is frankly disgraceful that a law school would admit a class whose common feature seems to be that they bombed a standardized test designed to measure critical thinking ability, and got bad or mediocre grades in college. <br /><br />http://www.law.whittier.edu/index/experience/consumer-information/#dem<br /><br />As for flunking out students who can't make the grade, I am glad that Whittier does that. However, this is not to Whittier's credit-- most of these students should not have been admitted in the first place. Moreover, Whittier's ABA accreditation status has been called into question due to its low bar passage rate.<br /><br />http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/little_green_bar-pass_machines/<br /><br />We have common ground in opposing law school tenure practices. But professors who have no experience as lawyers, like Prof. Yildirim, should never have been hired in the first place. <br /><br />PS. One small clarification on my previous comment. I said that 59 out of 170 of the class of 120 obtained full-time, bar-required, long-term jobs within nine months of graduation. I should have subtracted the six solos, and stated the number as 53 out of 170. dybbuk123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08142974443119061724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42311588156716431632013-08-02T09:43:16.009-06:002013-08-02T09:43:16.009-06:00Classic diversion strategy. Don't pay attenti...Classic diversion strategy. Don't pay attention to our terrible employment outcomes because I assure you through my total honesty that many of our graduates thrive (no need to provide evidence). Instead, focus on a minor side issue: tenure.<br /><br />Why don't you WLS administrators focus on not hiring these idiots in the first place? It would drop tuition immensely.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15996641218013991242013-08-02T09:40:32.530-06:002013-08-02T09:40:32.530-06:00I invite any of you to stop by the campus and witn...I invite any of you to stop by the campus and witness the changes that have taken place. The new $2MM courtroom that was supported by many TOP WLS alumni who believes int he school. The amazing marketing that has come as a result and the people who are now flocking to a school that has been turned around by a new Dean who is there for the right reasons. The person that you need to skin is the former Dean. He ran the placeinto the ground. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77071481309135939122013-08-02T09:38:48.122-06:002013-08-02T09:38:48.122-06:00PS - I am NOT a WLS professor....I do not possess ...PS - I am NOT a WLS professor....I do not possess tenure. I am simply someone who knows the facts - like them or not - as I work with this information daily. Sometimes the facts are quite ugly, I agree. But often times they are misquoted and erroneous. You need to look at some of the Top ranked Tier Two schools who have fallen to Tier 4 because of their poor and false reporting. I am also curious to know, why do you have a beef with WLS? Is this personal or do you just not have anything better to do with your time? Clearly you have not been able to find work in the legal field because if you had, you would not have time to waste your time on this blog. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73553058204213144482013-08-02T09:35:52.007-06:002013-08-02T09:35:52.007-06:00I am an administrator at WLS and I can assure you ...I am an administrator at WLS and I can assure you that the employment stats do not reflect p/t employment at McDs. The ABA began a new form of employment reporting last year. Every law school must report every Spring the name of every recent graduate, where they work, if the job is law-related or not, if they work p/t or f/t and what the salary they earn is. This is the ABAs way of assuring that the false employment reporting stops. The 2012 ABA report is for stats from the 2011 class. The 2012 class gets reported in 2013 - which is due in October of this year. ABA numbers are a year delayed. When admitting these students, WHO could possibly know that they are lazy and unmotivated and think that they can cruise through law school just like they did undergrad. That is why the DQ rate is so high, they can't cut it. And WLS will NOT continue to take their tuition money if they cannot make the grade. Many schools continue to allow them to stay for the income. How does one "predict" the type of student they will be based on application data? We have folks with very high LSATs and UGPAs who are lazy and others with very low who excel. As far as your issue with the Profs go, yes there are bad profs in every school. Not just WLS. Tenure needs to go bye-bye so these folks can be gone also. But I would put many of WLSs faculty up against those at higher rated schools any day of the week. The ethics and quality teaching of faculty has to come from within themselves Like with any job, you can hire people who appear to be the best but you just never know what you have until you see them in action. Would you agree? I think this blog would be better served by discussing HOW to stop the system of tenure that is in place at every school on the planet and how to get rid of those faculty who rest on that tenure until they die. THAT is the issue. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7639588410981783822013-08-02T04:19:48.705-06:002013-08-02T04:19:48.705-06:00Me again. Forgot to add - dybbuk, this was a reall...Me again. Forgot to add - dybbuk, this was a really great post! Nice work exposing this charlatan for who she really is, and for showing law applicants that their professors are wholly unqualified to teach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-64642420107101706362013-08-02T04:16:32.551-06:002013-08-02T04:16:32.551-06:00What a revolting liar this "professor" i...What a revolting liar this "professor" is. Exaggerating her legal experience. At most, her contribution to the case was "discussing" it with her husband over coffee in the morning. She knew what she was doing with that case - she needed a project to get tenure, so she finds some BS client with a silly issue and plumps it up into something she tried to get to the Supreme Court by making it "constitutional" in nature. Then she lets someone else do the legal work, and she milks it to make her role look bigger. She could not even defend a traffic ticket on her own, and I expect that this is the same for 99% of all law professors who list "appeals" on their resumes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78035693569737794292013-08-02T00:03:36.507-06:002013-08-02T00:03:36.507-06:00At least he openly admits to being an employee of ...At least he openly admits to being an employee of Whittier. If I worked there, I probably wouldn't admit it to anyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-53792168776587533032013-08-02T00:03:27.757-06:002013-08-02T00:03:27.757-06:00Radio silence coming from whittier law prof. To th...Radio silence coming from whittier law prof. To think that we were intimidated by these mental munchkins in law school during 1l. Ha ha their arguments are so nonsensical. Just rehashing garbage stats the the courts have held to be untrue. And reliance on them unreasonable. Scum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-90397637699757985222013-08-01T23:10:57.501-06:002013-08-01T23:10:57.501-06:00"Statistics like that are precisely the kind ..."Statistics like that are precisely the kind of deceptive PR bullshit that destroys lives and fuels the scamblog movement.<br /><br />The full-time legal employment rate is what we are interested in..."<br /><br />Dybbuk123:<br /><br />The good professor doesn't care about these things. He makes $150,000 NOT to care about these things...<br /><br />By the way, 'Professor,' why don't you, in your next class, let your students (you know, the ones who, because of them, you have a salary) know that you think they are all lazy, porn-watchers. I wonder how many more days Whittier would remain open if the students knew how stupid their professors thought they were and how much they despised them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-11721499975568377092013-08-01T22:17:26.045-06:002013-08-01T22:17:26.045-06:00Professor:
You do realize that the 72% "empl...Professor:<br /><br />You do realize that the 72% "employment rate" displayed on Whittier Law's website includes part-time jobs at McDonald's and such? Statistics like that are precisely the kind of deceptive PR bullshit that destroys lives and fuels the scamblog movement.<br /><br />The full-time legal employment rate is what we are interested in, and the percentages are as I stated. For the class of 2012, 170 graduated and, of those, a mere 59 obtained bar-required, full-time, long-term (a year or more, including clerkships) jobs within nine months of graduation. <br /><br />As for your PS-- Whittier's ABA report says 170 graduates for 2012. Feast your eyes on Whittier's 2012 ABA report, linked below. Under total graduates, it says: 170.<br /><br />http://www.law.whittier.edu/courses_upload/2012EmploymentStatistics.pdf<br /><br />dybbuk123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08142974443119061724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50427373740511264442013-08-01T21:56:34.156-06:002013-08-01T21:56:34.156-06:00Maybe your points have some merit, but why does it...Maybe your points have some merit, but why does it cost over $40k a year to go to Whittier? If the Whittier students are lazy and unmotivated, then why did Whittier admit them in the first place? Similarly, the people that fall for "Nigerian Prince" internet scam are dumb, but that doesn't make the practice moral or legal. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17028349417004429552013-08-01T21:29:14.606-06:002013-08-01T21:29:14.606-06:00What the people here do not seem to "get"...What the people here do not seem to "get" is that (1) no one puts a gun to the head of any student and forces them to enroll at Whittier and (2) Whittier admits students that cannot get into any other law schools. If they have dismal future after graduation it is usually because most of these people do not take law school seriously, sit in class watching porn instead of engaging in learning, ask administration to dumb down the class work so that they can "pass" (yes, I have been asked this question) and do not bother to show up for bar prep classes and of course, fail the Bar. This has nothing to do with WLS but with the student/graduate and their lack of taking responsibility for their own education. I have witnessed all of this first hand at WLS. And BTW - the employment numbers for last year have been quoted in error. They had a 72% employment rate last year. If you are going to slam the school at least get your facts right. Check the ABA reports for verification of these facts. There are just as many Harvard, Stanford, UCLA grads who cannot find work either. It is called the state of the legal market and the economy which has nothing to do with WLS or any other school. And PS - last year WLS graduated 230 graduates, not 170 as you report. Again, before you slam anyone or anything, at least take the time to fact-check. Maybe the scam here is that the reporting on this site is more like the National Law School Enquirer rather than based on fact. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81451871006787588342013-08-01T20:45:50.586-06:002013-08-01T20:45:50.586-06:00Upon reading this post, I wanted to laugh at the l...Upon reading this post, I wanted to laugh at the ludicrousness of it all. But then I started thinking: this woman probably makes $180,000 a year or more. As a society, we have designated her contribution as important and valuable enough that we ensure she lives the lifestyle of the 1%.<br /><br />Me? I work w/ low-income clients everyday, usually spending 2 hours a day in unpaid overtime because my caseload is so high. I make $14,000 a year. Yeah, you all can see how much my contribution - helping low-incomed individuals - is valued. And I am lucky to have my job.<br /><br />And we pay $180,000 plus to individuals like her. Laughing? Not so much. Don't feel like it anymore...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-84193786846674796462013-08-01T17:35:16.815-06:002013-08-01T17:35:16.815-06:00I really liked this deceptively simple post. It e...I really liked this deceptively simple post. It exposes the law school scam perfectly through this very specific example of a typical lawprof. She has never done anything in the law or performed any intellectually rigorous task outside of acing the LSAT and law school exams. She has no experience or knowledge to offer. Her bullshit academic musings come at the expense of bankrupting her students for life, as only a handful will ever have careers. She is the epitome of pretension.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.com