tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post3697593149093913087..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: How to be a ScambloggerUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81595947974167331662013-06-17T10:55:39.003-06:002013-06-17T10:55:39.003-06:00I don't mind if you let the nasty comments in....I don't mind if you let the nasty comments in. That's up to you admins to determine what you want the blog to look like. I think they are cheap, but that's just me. <br /><br />As far as beliefs that I am trying to build myself up on the backs of the suffering, you need to follow a bit more of my posts. I am the first to say I am nobody special, nor do I really care to be lord over anything. All I do is tell it like it is. I don't always like the way it is, either, but I'm not going to be a fool and pretend we can form a quaint, little social club of disappointed citizens and bring about Utopia. <br /><br />The world works the way it does. I tell it like it is. If you find offense in that, write to your legislator.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6139430015020928502013-06-17T08:42:14.684-06:002013-06-17T08:42:14.684-06:00This is the best post to date on OTLSSThis is the best post to date on OTLSSBoConoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29381123507672657382013-06-17T07:30:45.225-06:002013-06-17T07:30:45.225-06:00You know what's really sad? He probably won...You know what's really sad? He probably won't take your advice. I've had several variations of this conversation with people and they all ignored my advice and went to Toilets. <br />One did OK and is a clerk in a law frim, waiting to pass the bar. The others aren't doing so great.<br /><br />They have already swallowed the Koolaid. It's too late for them. <br /><br />That's why the "law school" brand needs to be destroyed. Thanks to the work of people like Nando, L4L and countless other people, the word is getting out. But is is a long, slow process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-35580339726239828912013-06-17T05:53:40.916-06:002013-06-17T05:53:40.916-06:00Hey Thought Police,
JeffM rubs his Panglossian g...Hey Thought Police, <br /><br />JeffM rubs his Panglossian garbage in the face of someone suffering and we cant call him on it? JeffM's words and actions arein this thread those of a coward in need of self actualization at the expense of others. You want to tell people what to write and think? Go work for Oilbamas nsa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49962693235867216422013-06-17T04:20:15.129-06:002013-06-17T04:20:15.129-06:00Which admin let this comment through? Adam?
This ...Which admin let this comment through? Adam?<br /><br />This is the kind of comment that I've enjoyed NOT reading. If I need personal attacks on those with other opinions, I'll read TTR instead.<br /><br />Disappointing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-14597186404472954362013-06-17T01:37:29.258-06:002013-06-17T01:37:29.258-06:00I am sorry, but I found this to be terribly mislea...I am sorry, but I found this to be terribly misleading. First, why are you complaining about working in a dark basement when many people, especially out of the US and EU work in much, much more horrible conditions? Is the darkness that bad for scambloggers? I was under the impression that most were used to the darkness as in they spend much of their time on the internet in their mother's basements.<br /><br />Second, you should be golden for IBR even if you work full time making $10 an hour. <br /><br />Third, don't default on your loans and debt collectors should not be calling.<br /><br />Also, you mentioned Starbucks. If you are trying to live frugally, you should not even consider stopping at a Starbucks every morning, or ever. Just sayin'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70807552794119246152013-06-16T15:02:23.954-06:002013-06-16T15:02:23.954-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-66421364048902211562013-06-16T07:30:34.628-06:002013-06-16T07:30:34.628-06:00The post describes at least two kinds of angst-- m...The post describes at least two kinds of angst-- money angst and inexperience (or lack thereof) angst.<br /><br />The "getting experience" part is bound to improve after you've ltierally 'paid' your dues. (i.e., after you've practiced law and incurred expenses --monetary and personal-- to handle peoples' problems). There are many ways to gain experience. Heck, you can even go into the courts and observe for a year or so for free and many sample pleadings/briefs are avaialable on line, as are recordings of some oral arguments.<br /><br />Experience angst is dispelled over time. But getting experience (which is very doable) isn't the same as getting clients, let alone paying ones. <br /><br />The angst about whether all your experience can net enough money to run a responsible practice (no downtown office, no assistants) and pay your bills (and I mean eating at the buffet, living in a small apartment, etc.) will always be there and is getting worse.<br /><br />All criminal law clients, most all family law clients, and the vast majority of solo-seeking civil clients have problems that could certainly use a lawyer if for nothing else than to be a hand to hold. But these problems chiefly arise from the fact they can't meet financial obligations and have ignored them. An attempt to get a retainer from them creates angst.... and the "replenishing" part is something akin to a sick joke or fantasy. Trying to have them to keep up with case expenses is doing good, and they may resent you for even this.<br /><br />And beware of cries of "do personal injury, med mal, or insurance bad faith." That will require postings and understanding of tort reform. Whatever your politics and whatever your views on that subject pro or con, you must agree that it was designed to reduce the number of civil suits and that it's largely succeeded in this goal. <br /><br />You see, this blog is about "law school" and whether people should enroll. The law school concept is that people plunk down money to attend, implying to most (admittedly, not all) that there's an ability to earn some (some, not all) money. <br />Yes, can certainly donate your services or work for IOU's. Money angst will always be there for the self-employed lawyer and will never go away. Subsisting is better than starving and this may be acceptable. A realistic idea of self-employed earnings from law is essential for an informed choice.<br /><br />No the world's not all doom and gloom --it's actually a great place that always has opportunities. This blog discusses law school, however.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32150664914722569602013-06-15T22:04:23.827-06:002013-06-15T22:04:23.827-06:00LOL! That Twisted Sister brings back memories. T...LOL! That Twisted Sister brings back memories. There you go! Learn how to play guitar. Get a talent. Make money. <br /><br />That kid was pretty clear what he wanted to do with his life. "I want to rock!!!" At least he has a plan. Seeing him play air-guitar, I'd simply tell him, go buy some sheet music, learn some chords and find a band.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45430256151868733082013-06-15T21:07:25.055-06:002013-06-15T21:07:25.055-06:00?????
Adam, that describes life for most new solo...?????<br /><br />Adam, that describes life for most new solos after graduation. You passed it off as if this is your life now, years after graduation.<br /><br />Can you tell us what a day looks like for you now that you're settled and a few years past law school? Your 6:30 post seems to say that things are better.<br /><br />It was a great post, but is it accurate? It may have been true in the past, but like JeffM says, things do improve after you've paid your dues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58187319452206314732013-06-15T20:28:57.187-06:002013-06-15T20:28:57.187-06:00Did anyone else read Jeff M.'s posting at 6:08...Did anyone else read Jeff M.'s posting at 6:08 P.M. in Douglas Niedermeyer's voice?<br /><br />"You're all worthless and weak!"<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67407499011350937402013-06-15T19:40:49.756-06:002013-06-15T19:40:49.756-06:00No, it can't. We're doomed. All doomed.....No, it can't. We're doomed. All doomed....<br /><br />Only a miracle or beating the overwhelming odds will let you escape the odds of perpetual doom.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-90472540703011084122013-06-15T19:36:25.446-06:002013-06-15T19:36:25.446-06:00Luck? There are circumstances. Some you find you...Luck? There are circumstances. Some you find yourself in by birthright. Others, you create.<br /><br />If practicing law was outlawed tomorrow, I would still have a plethora of ways to make a living. <br /><br />It wasn't luck that I learned locksmithing, or accounting, or computer programming. I saw these as ways to make money, and I made money doing each of them. I can resort to them anytime I want.<br /><br />Is a plumber making $80k just "lucky?" I doubt it.<br /><br />If you want to emphasize luck, then we might as well conclude that not learning marketable trades is bad luck. Either way, it doesn't change anything. Use whatever labels you like. That's sort of the problem with "studiously" debating bullshit like this. "Why, it's oversupply. No, it's low demand. No, it's greed." Who gives a shit? Does anyone out there give a shit? Who's going to come save you because you determined the problem is supply or demand, or luck, or whatever the heck it is that gives you a sense of intellectual satisfaction?<br /><br />Bottom line: You're on your own. That's the chief complaint often masqueraded in so many different forms. <br /><br /> JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23164792327995131522013-06-15T19:30:02.622-06:002013-06-15T19:30:02.622-06:00I am glad that some people seemed to relate to thi...I am glad that some people seemed to relate to this post. It describes the beginning of post-graduation more than the present. Life can change...sometimes.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-55167890327143043362013-06-15T19:26:51.474-06:002013-06-15T19:26:51.474-06:00I think these generalizations are weak. This prob...I think these generalizations are weak. This probably describes one type of upper-middle class law grad but not the majority. <br /><br />Devoping skills is one important factor, luck is another.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-37200548189804146922013-06-15T19:12:10.434-06:002013-06-15T19:12:10.434-06:00"And I hope you understand that you're a ..."And I hope you understand that you're a scam dean's best friend."<br /><br />Not exactly. If you think I'd endorse law school these days, you clearly have not seen that part of my beliefs. You probably missed the places where I said even college is probably a bad idea. Plumbers and electricians do just as well or better than most college grads, including lawyers. It's not unusual at all for a plumber to make $80k a year.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80749721458453368462013-06-15T19:08:11.668-06:002013-06-15T19:08:11.668-06:00"What's the solution?"
When I grew ..."What's the solution?"<br /><br />When I grew up, I mowed yards. I learned locksmithing. I learned accounting. I learned computer programming. I learned drums. We changed our own oil and did our own tune-ups. Put on brake pads ourselves. I worked counter sales at dad's small hardware store. Did inventory arrangement and purchasing. Collected accounts receivable, etc... <br /><br />Start to see a pattern here?<br /><br />Today's snot-nosed kids have 2 parents who go to their J-O-B's, while the kids become obedient, dull, book-smart panty-wastes who, the odds are, never used a lawnmower or weedeater in their lives. They followed a narrow, dull-assed track, because "that's the path to success." When that bubble pops, they are utterly talentless. Unmarketable. Can't even market themselves. Have no clue what to do because they've never done anything.<br /><br />The solution is to hone a talent and sell it.<br /><br /><br />JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70283065535354428292013-06-15T18:56:26.487-06:002013-06-15T18:56:26.487-06:00Most people are simply not entrepreneurs. There ar...Most people are simply not entrepreneurs. There aren't enough jobs to go around and there aren't enough paying clients even if every lawyer in the country had the makings to be an excellent solo attorney.<br /><br />What's the solution?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-20390942419073549302013-06-15T18:42:08.493-06:002013-06-15T18:42:08.493-06:00JeffM,
Would still like to know how much, if any,...JeffM,<br /><br />Would still like to know how much, if any, non-dischargable debt you took on to pay for law school. <br /><br />And how many of your classmates are still practicing law.<br /><br />And I hope you understand that you're a scam dean's best friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45489512191978234412013-06-15T17:42:43.317-06:002013-06-15T17:42:43.317-06:00Here's a short and entertaining lesson on entr...Here's a short and entertaining lesson on entrepreneurialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqkv1byHYRo<br /><br />Enjoy!JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-64221009462523751582013-06-15T17:04:11.418-06:002013-06-15T17:04:11.418-06:00What you folks aren't getting is that none of ...What you folks aren't getting is that none of all that matters. Less demand. More supply. Bla, bla, bla. It is what it is. What are you going to do? Change it? LOL! Good luck with that.<br /><br />I stand behind what I said. It's a pity they don't teach people in grade school how to start their own businesses. <br /><br />Because Thane, et al. are right. There are not enough jobs. Given that there are not enough jobs, don't you NOW wish you had what it takes to make your own? <br />JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-87197958789488761732013-06-15T16:04:42.415-06:002013-06-15T16:04:42.415-06:00Just buy them a copy of 'con law' and save...Just buy them a copy of 'con law' and save your breath. They aren't listening to you anyway. All they hear is "law school law school law school" and stare into space dreamily. Tell them to read it and then come to you if they have any questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81971328155116931932013-06-15T15:40:11.339-06:002013-06-15T15:40:11.339-06:00Jeffsnarkm,
How much was your law school tuition?...Jeffsnarkm,<br /><br />How much was your law school tuition?<br /><br />How much did you borrow to finance your law school education? Were your loans non-dischargable?<br /><br />What percentage of your classmates are still practicing law? Of the ones who are, how many are just, to quote you, 'spinning'?<br /><br />I ask these questions because you persistently ignore the 3 factors which are the reason law schools have become such forces for destruction in the last 10-15 years:<br /><br />Tuition at least twice as expensive as it was 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation).<br /><br />Student loans are now non-dischargable.<br /><br />The initial job market for lawyers is somewhere between abysmal and hopeless for at least a majority of graduates, and the long term job market prospects are much worse. (See Up or Out)<br /><br />But you never discuss these factors - you just say in effect "those who lose deserve to".<br /><br />Enough already - the issues lawyers face go far far beyond their personalities.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49686463381928916602013-06-15T14:52:13.974-06:002013-06-15T14:52:13.974-06:00This is a good suggestion. Once upon a time, a fe...This is a good suggestion. Once upon a time, a fellow a few doors down practiced in banking law. He kept coming in in disbelief at how easy class actions would be against our clients, and especially against our non-clients (as his job was to shore up the various disclosures to meet the law).<br /><br />Each year there are new laws, and thus new opportunities. No, this is not the way the world should be. But it is. <br /><br />Better still, while collecting on debt is an important function in theory, it's very easy to cross lines in practice. And that's where a resourceful attorney might come in.<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54382386847355498782013-06-15T14:46:50.974-06:002013-06-15T14:46:50.974-06:00"It's a pity they don't teach entrepr..."It's a pity they don't teach entrepreneurialism in grade school. As a result, the market is flooded with people who need jobs because they don't know how to hunt, catch and kill on their own."<br /><br /><br />JeffM & All -<br /><br />We seem to talk past each other, which unfortunately becomes a circular firing squad of sorts.<br /><br />You are absolutely correct about entrepreneurship. But that is not really the point here. The profession has changed, and this change, coupled with the economic slump, has reduced the pie. There is simply less to go around . . . *much* less . . . even if one had a decent shot at a slice.<br /><br />Numerous resources beyond a regular lawyer are now options for clients. And those clients who actually pay their bills are no less aware of just how much more leverage they have. And you'd better believe they use it.<br /><br />I remember a dance of sorts. In a "real" firm, one didn't really deign to talk about money, retainers, and such. It was simply done. So, clients would wordlessly slide the checks over, or their people would, and that would be that. That world still exists, but it's now a relatively tiny slice that few will ever taste.<br /><br />I also remember getting checks from clients directly, and, as Adam writes, that is a different animal entirely. <br /><br />As it happens, I'm thinking that entrepreneurship is *the* answer . . . but not in law. I'm cogitating on this, but in the meantime, perhaps we might separate out the arguments ( . . . and vitriol).<br /><br />Yes, one can work hard, believe in oneself, keep it positive, work harder still . . . but at some point, pounding one's head against the wall starts to hurt. A headache now and again is hardly the same as a constant bludgeoning. This is the world new lawyers inhabit. To discount that is not just unhelpful, it's unfair and unkind.<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.com