tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post3018838786681585335..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: "Can You Give Some Quick Advice On Something?"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80818762871909645662014-05-12T12:35:14.439-06:002014-05-12T12:35:14.439-06:00Yet another desperate move? http://www.tucsonweek...Yet another desperate move? http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2014/05/08/ua-to-offer-nations-first-bachelor-of-arts-in-lawAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78134266343007445582014-05-11T22:43:02.150-06:002014-05-11T22:43:02.150-06:00Why, when you want "highly qualified students...Why, when you want "highly qualified students", the first place to go is a community college.<br /><br />Just ask the scam-dean at Indiana Tech.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-30873640717094369652014-05-11T18:07:55.183-06:002014-05-11T18:07:55.183-06:00I love that guy called "Spinal Fap" who ...I love that guy called "Spinal Fap" who commented at the original article. Now there's a real activist, generously giving his time to save deluded students from a horrifying life of servitude. That's exactly what 19th century abolitionists would be doing if they found themselves in the 21st century. The scamdeans and the jet-setting conference hounds? The Switzerland, Palm Beach, and Maui crowd? They're behaving a lot like slaveowners did in 1855. They've still got the federal government on their side, and no stale, fallacious argument is too putrid for them to embrace. After all, the money's too good to pass up. They have payments to make. If they don't do it, somebody else will. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-61022734632390376822014-05-11T17:40:36.266-06:002014-05-11T17:40:36.266-06:00How on earth are they going to find highly qualifi...How on earth are they going to find highly qualified students? Anyone who falls for their discredited sales pitches is totally unqualified to be a lawyer. Fortunately for the California scampits, few of their graduates ever get hired, so no one ever finds out how utterly unqualified those graduates are. Kind of a neat solution, once you think about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-36246923525800699472014-05-11T12:59:04.957-06:002014-05-11T12:59:04.957-06:00Did the author use her brain at all when writing t...Did the author use her brain at all when writing that article? She says that "[a] tough legal job market and rising law school tuition has put legal education -- and many aspiring lawyers -- in a bind", and she acknowledges that applications to law schools have fallen by a third since 2010, yet she doesn't even suspect that this new scheme/scam is designed merely to dupe people from community colleges into enrolling at humdrum law schools that are desperate to put butts into seats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-88130568684784898552014-05-11T11:01:56.087-06:002014-05-11T11:01:56.087-06:00Well, I guess that's one of the advantages to ...Well, I guess that's one of the advantages to being a recent graduate and never having the 'opportunity' to get a job in this profession - no one asks you for legal advice because they know you don't work in the field. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-37226855096602333422014-05-11T10:50:18.038-06:002014-05-11T10:50:18.038-06:00pure comedy in this article. nice spin too.
"...pure comedy in this article. nice spin too.<br /><br />"Law schools are under increasing pressure to diversify their classrooms and, in some cases, to fill their seats with highly qualified students."<br /><br />http://www.mercurynews.com/education/ci_25678046/law-school-path-opens-californias-community-college-students<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-65795598336591812772014-05-11T07:27:32.538-06:002014-05-11T07:27:32.538-06:00MacK, how true! Unlimited time leads to terrible ...MacK, how true! Unlimited time leads to terrible legal red herrings.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-88473082220121742422014-05-11T06:49:32.973-06:002014-05-11T06:49:32.973-06:00This is a very well-put comment. Yes, it can be an...This is a very well-put comment. Yes, it can be annoying to be asked to counsel someone randomly. And it can be annoying to try and help them without putting oneself at risk for a bar complaint or legal malpractice. But it's not THAT hard. People come to me because they are stressed out about something in their lives. My answers often tend to help them. As a human being, I am gratified at playing that minimal role in someone's life. <br /><br />And as long as I'm giving advice about giving advice: this is how it plays out 99% of the time. Bob asks me for legal advice. I give the usual disclaimers, and then provide a four minute primer on the broad area of law implicated by his issue (divorce, contracts, criminal, blah blah), and then point out that getting an attorney to navigate this problem for him could possibly cost anywhere from Xxx dollars to xx,000 dollars, which strikes me as cost-prohibitive given the scope of his problem, but that I know lots of lawyers in town and can get him in touch with one if he wants me to. I always come off as having been helpful, with this approach. People are thankful. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85759822191236302052014-05-11T06:04:13.126-06:002014-05-11T06:04:13.126-06:00You run into this issue too when dealing with univ...You run into this issue too when dealing with universities whose legal departments get involved. It is usually a mixture of a professor obsessed with some non-issue in the deal, who turns a simple arrangement into a saga - they simply have unlimited time to burn. MacKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442386017204584747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80454040072713255332014-05-10T22:20:12.123-06:002014-05-10T22:20:12.123-06:00Back in 2007, I did a real estate closing for a re...Back in 2007, I did a real estate closing for a relative. He bought one of those cookie cutter McMansions for $850K even though he was only making $80K a year. I told my relative that he couldn't afford the house and he accused me of being jealous. My mother got involved and begged me to do this relative this one favor. I couldn't say no to my mother so I went ahead and did the closing.<br /><br />In 2010, my relative lost his job. His house was foreclosed in early 2012. Now, this same relative blames me for allowing him to buy an expensive house he could not afford. He has even gone so far as to say that he will sue the mortgage broker and me for being complicit in mortgage fraud. <br /><br />After this incident, I won't represent any family or friends. If my own mother needs a lawyer, I will hire one for her but I refuse to do any legal work for family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-18648123456991536762014-05-10T13:24:16.570-06:002014-05-10T13:24:16.570-06:00I have become very careful about accepting work in...I have become very careful about accepting work involving relatives or close friends. Too many things that can go wrong. As you point out they may be unhappy with the outcome even if you do great work. My policy now is that I will do it but only on very minor matters, minor enough that I usually dont even charge a fee except asking them to buy me dinner.BamBamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76687366930470398022014-05-10T07:26:33.641-06:002014-05-10T07:26:33.641-06:00I have encountered this problem a number of times,...I have encountered this problem a number of times, including a friend of my in-laws who needed a felony defense (8 months of work for $2000). The personal connection to family meant that I worked harder for less and got all charges dropped. She went from facing 1-3 years to getting her commercial driver's license suspended for two years and a few hundred dollars in fines and surcharges. No criminal record. And she still acted unhappy, as if I did amateurish work.<br /><br />I always recommend that people avoid business with anyone personally connected. Also, I have gotten much better with shutting down free advice requests with various lines (not my area of practice, I am not taking new cases).Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-89570210515232213252014-05-09T20:34:20.060-06:002014-05-09T20:34:20.060-06:00The scam-dean of Crooklyn Law Skule is selling a 1...The scam-dean of Crooklyn Law Skule is selling a 15% reduction in tuition as a measure to make law accessible to everyone, irrespective of wealth:<br /><br />http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/15/brooklyn-law-school-tuition-cut/?section=magazines_fortune<br /><br />Bullshit. The only reason for which this toilet of a law skule is reducing its tuition is that the number of applicants is declining to the point that there may not be enough asses (word used in more senses than one) to fill the seats in the entering class. This smoke screen of making law school affordable is pure eyewash: even at 15% off, Crooklyn is still unaffordable to most people, and also unjustifiably expensive for anyone who needs to have a job after graduation.<br /><br />"When people finish law school with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt, 'they're not able to pursue jobs where they're most needed in law, perhaps providing affordable, quality services to individuals who don't have high net worth—or to small businesses,' he says. 'It means that they're not free, really, to follow their passion and pursue work in areas where they're most talented."<br /><br />The words "they're not free" dishonestly imply that students are turning down low-paying positions as lawyers in order to take up high-paying positions as lawyers. In fact, many of them are not getting work <i>of any kind</i> in law, and not a few are unemployed altogether. Indeed, tens of thousands of recent (and not-so-recent) law graduates would kill for <i>either</i> low-paying <i>or</i> high-paying legal work, to say nothing of the luxury to choose between the two.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6691967675172787032014-05-09T18:48:45.488-06:002014-05-09T18:48:45.488-06:00What about when you give them legal advice and the...What about when you give them legal advice and then they want to argue with you about how you are wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01659995537790248686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2668997125707988522014-05-09T16:15:07.212-06:002014-05-09T16:15:07.212-06:00As I've said for years, there ain't no jus...As I've said for years, there ain't no justice under a hundred grand.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7930072438222324152014-05-09T15:16:20.139-06:002014-05-09T15:16:20.139-06:00I don't think it is unwitting. I understand my...I don't think it is unwitting. I understand my professional responsibilities, have an idea when attorney/client relationships are formed, and can spot malpractice issues as they arise - that's what lawyers do. I freely admit that I don't know the factual specifics of their cases and tell them straight out that I will not take these cases (for whatever reason) and am not their attorney. If there is a serious question, I'll e-mail a non-retention letter the following day saying it was nice meeting them and good luck with resolving their problem. And, like I said, these peoples' problems could be big to them, but litigating them (other than in small claims court where they are specifically not represented by counsel for a reason) would be disastrous for everybody because of cost, so I'm generally not concerned about conflicts.<br /><br />It sucks, but, with few exceptions (personal injury, simple family law, BK, petty crimes, DUI etc.) private-pay lawyers are for rich people (at least very upper middle-class and above) and corporate business. The "rich" people I meet already have lawyers and know the drill. "Advice" for the rest is generally - "here's where you get small claims forms", "here's the phone number for the low-cost referral service and county self-help desk", "the local bar association has a low income law clinic", "talk to social-services, the appropriate county office, or the police","you likely do not have a large enough estate for a trust, here's the Bar association's website with a statutory will and instructions" or "you maybe right, but after everything, you aren't going to get enough to justify the hassle, but another attorney may think differently."<br /><br />And for everything else, there's malpractice insurance, but in 15+ years I've never had to make a claim . . . knock on wood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42123387075578729702014-05-09T15:03:31.379-06:002014-05-09T15:03:31.379-06:00Say, while you're all giving out free advice, ...Say, while you're all giving out free advice, please help me with one little question:<br /><br />Indiana Tech or Nova Southeastern?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50635121385714558322014-05-09T15:02:32.232-06:002014-05-09T15:02:32.232-06:00What—your wife expected her to play the organ and ...What—your wife expected her to play the organ <i>and</i> give you a silver fish slice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78794110035744102002014-05-09T14:58:34.118-06:002014-05-09T14:58:34.118-06:00People with enough assets to warrant such complex ...People with enough assets to warrant such complex estate planning should be able to pay for a lawyer themselves. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17985964956352089122014-05-09T14:51:24.287-06:002014-05-09T14:51:24.287-06:00You can avoid these discussions by saying that you...You can avoid these discussions by saying that you'll have to do a conflict check before even listening to the person's issues, and then inviting the person to call you at the office.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-40758666590285657982014-05-09T14:23:05.071-06:002014-05-09T14:23:05.071-06:00Free advice...
One of the most satisfying aspects...Free advice...<br /><br />One of the most satisfying aspects of being a lawyer was helping someone genuinely in need, and making a real difference in their lives.<br /><br />But one of the most frustrating is when that pro bono matter or favor turns into a never-ending nightmare because the client isn't having to worry about the cost of your time.<br /><br />Example: I used to do lots of pro bono work for cancer patients who needed wills and other docs to get their affairs in order. Many were great to work with, but there were a few who abused the relationship. Instead of a basic will, they suddenly wanted the most elaborate estate planning services, and what was supposed to be a stopgap "leave everything to the kids in equal shares" type of affair ended up being a "leave 25% to X, 13.7% to Y in trust for Z, 18.64% and the fine china to W if she doesn't remarry, etc.". The complexity arose because the client didn't have to pay for the countless hours such ornate inheritance schemes entail.<br /><br />Giving out free advice is like giving out free anything - there's always a few greedy people who take as much as they can because it's free, not because they need it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23411360676286251462014-05-09T13:55:45.227-06:002014-05-09T13:55:45.227-06:00These situations can also raise some tricky issues...These situations can also raise some tricky issues of professional responsibility. By listening to someone and answering his questions, have you unwittingly formed an attorney-client relationship? Have you conflicted yourself (and your firm) out of representing a person with adverse interests in the same matter? Is your conversation privileged? Do you have exposure for malpractice if the person follows your "advice" and has a bad outcome?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-43109180598088802822014-05-09T13:46:43.175-06:002014-05-09T13:46:43.175-06:00Another old saying that comes to mind: "Free...Another old saying that comes to mind: "Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-43190702989051348062014-05-09T13:42:10.796-06:002014-05-09T13:42:10.796-06:00The doctor, however, can say something like: "...The doctor, however, can say something like: "Sure, drop your pants (or pull up your skirt or dress) lower your boxers/briefs/panties and we'll have a look." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com