tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post2512564490127563982..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: "JD Advantage," Briefly ReconsideredUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8066931543356396832014-05-09T13:37:29.247-06:002014-05-09T13:37:29.247-06:00Lighten up, @6:53. Any idea what a joke is?Lighten up, @6:53. Any idea what a joke is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73098483096011629552014-05-09T06:04:48.129-06:002014-05-09T06:04:48.129-06:00I knew someone who worked such tedious jobs in LS,...I knew someone who worked such tedious jobs in LS, she hid the fact they were all law-related jobs. E.g., phrased her resume to reflect general tasks she did that might be useful for a non-law job, omitted that she was working on briefs/complaints,etc. Did not have the law degree on the resume. They found out like at the way ass end of the interview process, at which point they surprisingly sorta shrugged because they knew they were taking her (HR rank-and-file at a F50 co).<br /><br />Pretty ballsy but it worked that time. I am not sure most employers would be as kind after discovering that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63195409361356451352014-05-08T22:51:33.100-06:002014-05-08T22:51:33.100-06:00It looks better on your resume than saying you'...It looks better on your resume than saying you've spent three years unemployed. It possibly looks better than saying you've spent three years working at a minimum wage service job (although I wouldn't count on it). There's your "JD Advantage".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76638323232616484472014-05-08T21:09:46.183-06:002014-05-08T21:09:46.183-06:00Rich begets rich and poor begets poor in large mea...Rich begets rich and poor begets poor in large measure because of advantages or disadvantages, respectively, that accrue from birth (conception, really).<br /><br />Today virtually no one flunks out of the élite law schools. I once asked around at my school and was told that there had not been a single case in ten years or more. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74405910421878495882014-05-08T20:54:56.841-06:002014-05-08T20:54:56.841-06:00The word "advantage" has to be construed...The word "advantage" has to be construed as to who receives the advantage of the JD. The JD holder or a prospective employer. If it's not the latter, then it's definitely not the former. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-963498928889208572014-05-08T20:48:28.113-06:002014-05-08T20:48:28.113-06:00To law $chool$ and their per$onnel, yes, it provid...To law $chool$ and their per$onnel, yes, it provides an immen$e advantage.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32390819288324405242014-05-08T19:53:02.458-06:002014-05-08T19:53:02.458-06:00"While I am generally prone to conservative v..."While I am generally prone to conservative views my sexual experiences in law school made me a firm believer in Affirmative Action."<br /><br />10:20 AM, yeah, cause that's what minorities are good for. You're a disgusting human being.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-36827855234964063632014-05-08T19:16:32.879-06:002014-05-08T19:16:32.879-06:00I think they should add a category called "JD...I think they should add a category called "JD Disadvantage".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23253794769825533352014-05-08T16:03:25.601-06:002014-05-08T16:03:25.601-06:00In b4 Leiter cites this as "proof" even ...In b4 Leiter cites this as "proof" even the scamblogs acknowledge that the JD provides an advantage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80040111132663595202014-05-08T15:19:22.214-06:002014-05-08T15:19:22.214-06:00That's an interesting comment, which I guess s...That's an interesting comment, which I guess shows your contempt for "rich" no matter how you define it. I come from an upper middle class background where kids' parents were professionals, small business owners . . . made good incomes but were not "rich". What I found is that those whose parents did well tended to be more ambitious so they too would do well. The people who were the "slackers" were the ones who were merely middle class backgrounds. Their parents were working class for the most part. That I think is why rich begets rich and poor begets poor. Regardless, if somebody goes to law school, they have to be somewhat ambitious or else they will flunk out, or at least they did in my day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32530567152711326922014-05-08T14:27:07.071-06:002014-05-08T14:27:07.071-06:00Any education shows ambition and effort? You obvio...Any education shows ambition and effort? You obviously didn't attend my law school, where rich slackers coasted through. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7927620979438626372014-05-08T14:25:04.103-06:002014-05-08T14:25:04.103-06:0010:20, not just anyone who can get $150k in loans ...10:20, not just anyone who can get $150k in loans for law school could get $150k on a mortgage for a house.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50553066575114308522014-05-08T13:55:26.965-06:002014-05-08T13:55:26.965-06:00"Where else can you find a number of pretty, ..."Where else can you find a number of pretty, smart and AVAILABLE coeds for fun and games and relationships?"<br /><br />9:36AM, I imagine you can find them at almost any graduate school. If that's the reason for attending (or even high on the list), then surely there's countless less expensive programs that would deliver for a fraction of the price/effort?<br /><br />But your point is taken. I too didn't dislike law school. Just what came afterwards, which was a billion miles away from anything shown in the law school recruitment materials...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-91068202451049560192014-05-08T13:51:31.998-06:002014-05-08T13:51:31.998-06:0010:32, we're talking about the same thing. Th...10:32, we're talking about the same thing. The JD might be an advantage to someone if they already have a job (as you correctly state). The entire point of the post is to show that the JD will not get you that job in the first place.<br /><br />My JD didn't help me get my current job, but they're certainly interesting in putting me to good use on the legal side of things after the fact. But during hiring, it was in no way a consideration. I wouldn't call my job a JD-advantage job because the JD didn't help me get it. I would be in exactly the same place as I am now (minus the debt, of course) had I not gone to law school.<br /><br />Law schools are peddling JD-advantage jobs as if the JD is the reason why the person got the job, and not (correctly) that the JD is merely useful once the job is obtained.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7760546070806629722014-05-08T12:52:04.482-06:002014-05-08T12:52:04.482-06:00You miss the point 11:37 AM. To me I loved the in...You miss the point 11:37 AM. To me I loved the intellectual challenge of law school and the give and take with professors and students in Study Group. I enjoyed my clinical and moot court experiences as well. Working in Bar, to me, would be very boring, especially a non-student bar where you would likely meet a bunch of deadheads. Law school had everything for me. Intellectual challenge, the opportunity to meet high quality people, etc. I'm not so sure what was so difficult to understand in my post. I was not talking about partying and sex. I was talking about deep relationships and deep friendships with people you had a lot in common with. I was talking about intellectual challenge for those of us smarter than a turtle. You don't find that stuff in your typical bar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-52341971240211645822014-05-08T12:37:21.193-06:002014-05-08T12:37:21.193-06:00This reply is kind of insipid. "Take out $10...This reply is kind of insipid. "Take out $100,000 in student loans and use to fund a lifestyle of partying and sex!" It's especially ridiculous given that you can do the exact same thing with a job as a restaurant server or bartender. The only difference is that ignorant people might be impressed by the future "rich lawyer." God knows that's what taxes are paid for--to make it slightly easier for 22 year olds to get laid.Hunter Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925220178171355473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63164853303492001392014-05-08T12:36:54.734-06:002014-05-08T12:36:54.734-06:00Great points in this posting and the comments. Th...Great points in this posting and the comments. The JD could be an advantage in many instances. However, the JD alone will not get your foot in the door.<br /><br />Another question to ask is: what is the financial impact of that advantage? A JD may be an advantage in your existing position and future positions, but does it pay itself back? There are explicit costs and opportunity costs of going to law school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72440642263639605822014-05-08T12:23:13.756-06:002014-05-08T12:23:13.756-06:00The data comes direct from the imagination of law ...The data comes direct from the imagination of law school professors. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-44709133047434452392014-05-08T11:34:33.222-06:002014-05-08T11:34:33.222-06:00And the elite school syndrome probably is not appl...And the elite school syndrome probably is not applicable to the majority of people . . who are not prestige hounds. It is lawyers who are the elitists, not the general public.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-70946597269555207262014-05-08T11:32:56.105-06:002014-05-08T11:32:56.105-06:00Nonsense, any education shows ambition and effort....Nonsense, any education shows ambition and effort. A JD should be a real plus to anybody who already has a job. Just like a graduate degree or an MBA, even if not used directly on the job. Not saying it will help you get a job, but like anything else, the better and more intelligent you show yourself to be, the more opportunity you will have within an organizationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-83389273756839381552014-05-08T11:20:59.725-06:002014-05-08T11:20:59.725-06:00@9:33, you get the $150,000.00 from a bank in the ...@9:33, you get the $150,000.00 from a bank in the form of a mortgage. But if you are carrying $140,000.00 in student loans debt you aren't going to get any mortgage, even if you got raises/promotions as a result of having a J.D. I bought that first house three years out of school, at which point my trivial 1980's student loans had already been paid off.<br /><br />@9:36, In the early 1980's I, too, had a bacchanalian experience in law school. While I am generally prone to conservative views my sexual experiences in law school made me a firm believer in Affirmative Action. But the difference between what you and I experienced and these kids today is the difference between a 49'er staking a claim to a gold mine in the California in 1849 and someone trying to buy a house in Beverly Hills in 2014.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-65176745330756916562014-05-08T11:16:29.917-06:002014-05-08T11:16:29.917-06:00"A JD can "help" you land a non-law..."A JD can "help" you land a non-lawyer job - if many, many things are already in place first."<br /><br />This is such a key concept, one which law schools deliberately blur. For the vast majority of JD-advantage jobs, the candidate would have been hired without the JD. The fact that the successful candidate had a JD is about as useful as Honda saying that the job was "Honda driver preferred" - the fact that the person drives a Honda has nothing to do with the eventual success, and is nothing more than a coincidence.<br /><br />And where is this JD-advantage data coming from? Self-reporting by students?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10157020541840080308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7402868417331125622014-05-08T11:07:42.099-06:002014-05-08T11:07:42.099-06:00The JD is an advantage, BUT only if:
(1) the JD i...The JD is an advantage, BUT only if: <br />(1) the JD is from Harvard, Yale or one of the 10 elite schools in the country,<br />(2) the person obtained the JD after 10 or so years of working in a particular industry, or<br />(3) the person has at least one other post-graduate degree (MBA, PHD, MD, MA, etc.), or some sort of certification. <br /><br />Also, the economy actually has to be good, and there needs to be robust hiring in these other industries (Note: there will NEVER be robust hiring in the legal industry for a long, long time, even if the economy does improve for other industries). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-61085418280756181462014-05-08T10:56:33.298-06:002014-05-08T10:56:33.298-06:00Ever heard of TurboTax? If technology such as pre...Ever heard of TurboTax? If technology such as predictive coding is killing off legal jobs, the same result is probably likely for tax jobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23921453361983630422014-05-08T10:36:02.641-06:002014-05-08T10:36:02.641-06:00I really disagree with the "massive loss of s...I really disagree with the "massive loss of spending three youthful years". We all only live a limited time and we have our whole lives to work in our careers. I personally enjoyed Law School, not only for the intellectual challenge but because I was still "in school". Where else can you find a number of pretty, smart and AVAILABLE coeds for fun and games and relationships? In the working world, it is much more difficult to meet high quality, pretty women who are available and/or not married. In Law school it is far easier to do so. Throw in the law school parties, common goals, etc., and I think there is nothing like it. Granted I went to law school decades ago, but I still see my law school friends and we are much closer than people I have worked with much longer in my career. I still think back fondly to those times. So the way I see it, if you can spend three additional years in School, learning stuff, interacting with your young peers, and can do so without taking out massive loans . . it is well worth the endeavor. Most of us will end up changing careers several times anyway, so this is a time of our life to really try to enjoy it . . . as I see it. Now if your law school years were very unpleasant, sorry for you there and I see why you think it is such a worthless endeavor. And of course it is not worth the massive debt, which is why I recommend going at Night in a public part-time program so you get out, still have your day job if you want it, had manageable tuition, and still had the experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com