tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post2272735520727875104..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: "Values" explain why law schools are still lobbying to eliminate the reporting distinction between actual jobs and law school-funded make-work. Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79705100151452441902018-02-14T14:52:23.587-07:002018-02-14T14:52:23.587-07:00Law students fail to understand that the most comm...Law students fail to understand that the most common type of modern law graduate is not an Environmental Lawyer, an International lawyer, etc. The most common are "Unemployed laywer" "under-employed lawyer" and "ex-lawyer". I have been practicing for over 20 years and know and encounter these types of lawyers all the time.<br />dilbert113https://www.blogger.com/profile/15864522757327866167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-3230435433729080362018-02-14T11:08:06.837-07:002018-02-14T11:08:06.837-07:00"All law schools are equal...but some law sch..."All law schools are equal...but some law schools are more equal than others..."<br /><br />Oh well. Let's not let some harsh realities get in the way of the student loan gravy train, said the law school cartel...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-36863212554924020582018-02-13T11:12:33.646-07:002018-02-13T11:12:33.646-07:00When I went to law school back in the early 90s, l...When I went to law school back in the early 90s, lots of students at my T2 trash heap professed an interest in “environmental law.” I even took an environmental law class during my second year and spent a semester being bored to tears learning about the finer points of the Clean Water Act. What they didn’t teach us in that class was that environmental law employers preferred to hire grads with words like Harvard and Columbia printed on their JD degrees. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49471514387708683512018-02-13T08:13:05.659-07:002018-02-13T08:13:05.659-07:00All true. . .but how much sympathy can you have fo...All true. . .but how much sympathy can you have for an aspiring law students who has such unrealistic expectations? I have told people, again and again, careers in Sports Law International Law Space Law do not exist. . .dilbert113https://www.blogger.com/profile/15864522757327866167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6720931569180895342018-02-13T00:22:33.919-07:002018-02-13T00:22:33.919-07:00"Public service" is another myth heavily..."Public service" is another myth heavily promoted by the law-school scam. It's a trap set for students who fancy themselves pursuing worthier goals than filthy lucre.<br /><br />Well, here's what happens:<br /><br />Well-meaning but naïve 0L goes off to law school with the goal of representing dolphins against evil corporations or bringing constitutional challenges against the Trump régime. Three years later, our hero(ine) graduates with no job—but $200k in non-dischargeable debt. Maybe the law school extends a one-year "fellowship" that pays perhaps $15k out of the vastly greater take from tuition. That won't come close to covering the payments on the debt, never mind such luxuries as food and housing. Even if the graduate somehow completes the "fellowship", it doesn't lead to a job, in public service or anything else. So much for brandishing one's barristerial sword against corporate stooges and ultra-right-wing buffoons (one and the same, really).<br /><br />Now and then a recent graduate finds a public-service job in law that pays $30k or perhaps $40k. Typically that goes to a rich kid. Who else could afford to take it? Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63039404274744132842018-02-13T00:06:21.457-07:002018-02-13T00:06:21.457-07:00Quality is declining even at the top, to say nothi...Quality is declining even at the top, to say nothing of fifth-tier institutions such as the University of Baltimore. Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-230527071589968372018-02-13T00:04:56.720-07:002018-02-13T00:04:56.720-07:00Scam-dean Treanor seems not to have noticed the cl...Scam-dean Treanor seems not to have noticed the clash between allegedly noble funding of programs in the "public interest", on the one hand, and base concern with alleged disincentives, on the other.<br /><br />How many of these scam-funded positions really do involve public service? Don't many of them consist of administrative work for the law school, such as rubber-stamping applications at the admissions office?<br /><br />If scamsters wanted to contribute to public service, they could set up an eleemosynary institution with stably employed full-time lawyers, or at least fund positions for years on end. Instead, they fund "fellowships" just long enough to get past the ABA's ten-month threshold for reporting of graduates' employment. Strictly coincidental, I'm sure.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-59378610415261236072018-02-12T22:34:22.760-07:002018-02-12T22:34:22.760-07:00What careers are there in "public service law...What careers are there in "public service law" that (a) arne't there otherwise and (b) are aided by the law schools filling any demand with Ponzi-funded positions?Law School Truth Centerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166092871374037640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75557760666689668912018-02-12T19:27:27.366-07:002018-02-12T19:27:27.366-07:00How shameless! They know full well how disingenuou...How shameless! They know full well how disingenuous their argument is, but they do it anyway. Maybe they are becoming more brazen as some of the law school scam blogs fade away, such as Nando's blog. <br /><br />Eventually this blog will also shutter. They are just trying to wait these things out.<br /><br />I do not at all understand why people still go to law school. Grousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73378829908362251782018-02-12T13:27:52.131-07:002018-02-12T13:27:52.131-07:00The Law Schools aren't really fooling anyone, ...The Law Schools aren't really fooling anyone, though. There has been a steep decline in both the quantity and the quality of Law School applicants. Here in Maryland, University of Baltimore law school grads have told me how dumb many of the current law students there are. The smart ones manage to intern in prosecutor's offices and at the Public Defender's Office and get hired upon graduation, which is why I run into them in court, but apparently most U.B. students aren't very bright, and the problem gets worse each year.<br />dilbert113https://www.blogger.com/profile/15864522757327866167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75509025310963108102018-02-12T08:40:33.201-07:002018-02-12T08:40:33.201-07:00This is like the question of whether sales returns...This is like the question of whether sales returns and allowances are an expense or direct reduction of revenue (negative revenue). Imagine a company that had $10 million in sales, all of which were returned. Should that company be allowed to report $10 million in sales, $10 million in expenses and zero net income? Of course not. Even though net income is zero, a legitimate $10 million in sales means something to investors and creditors. So, the company has to report $0 sales, $0 expenses, and $0 net income. Now we can truly see what the company is doing. <br /><br />Similarly, imagine a law school that employed 100% of its graduates is such positions. Should it be able to report 100% of its graduates as Employed - Bar Passage Required? Of course not. That would not give a true picture of the success of its graduates finding real law positions. It is, as the kids say, a no brainer.<br /><br />And in truth, Employed – Law School/University Funded is a generous category. I don't think they should be counted as employed at all.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58642014229473213792018-02-12T08:11:42.943-07:002018-02-12T08:11:42.943-07:00Let's also be honest - throughout most of Amer...Let's also be honest - throughout most of American history, public service was filled by the upper-crust. Public service was instilled as a value, a virture, and you did it out of (ideally) a sense of good-faith duty and obligation.<br /><br />In other words, only the wealthy went into these public service positions, be they prosecutors, defenders, or judges, because they could afford to. They didn't need the money, and they had the education and connections to do the job well. <br /><br />It's not a perfect system, as wealth, education and culture are not absolute proof against corruption, but neither is trying to convince naïve young people to enter public service just so the student loan dollars can roll in. There is just not that much demand that government is willing to support, and it is not the fault of the young people that free legal services don't abound everywhere. <br /><br />Hey, shouldn't the law profs be filling these roles, for free, as part of their commitment to "service"...? I mean, a few do, but look at all the untapped potential...!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29684151051127836332018-02-12T06:45:23.983-07:002018-02-12T06:45:23.983-07:00JD-Advantage clocking in at a whopping 15%, just a...JD-Advantage clocking in at a whopping 15%, just as it has for the last decade! Nothing says "non-legal employers value legal education" like 15% of graduates getting and/or actively choosing this category. Sign right up, kids, sign right up...!dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-90795255005407164922018-02-11T20:35:37.457-07:002018-02-11T20:35:37.457-07:00The problem here is the lack of transparency from ...The problem here is the lack of transparency from the defenders of these supposed public interest law fellowships. Medical school graduates can pursue a variety of fellowships after residency to further specialize. Pediatricians can further specialize in areas like cardiology or infectious disease. Orthopaedic surgeons can further specialize in areas such as sports medicine or surgery of the spine. What exactly are law schools teaching graduates about public interest law? I can buy the value of a fellowship from a school like Harvard or Stanford. Only a small fraction of grads from the very top schools pursue these fellowships. Perhaps these grads passed on an Article III clerkship and Biglaw for the prestige of working as a “fellow” at a top ranked law school. It’s unlikely Harvard, Yale, or Stanford are merely trying to pad their employment stats.<br /><br />But I doubt the remaining law schools promote fellowships as a means of training grads to practice public interest law. 5% of 2016 grads from the overrated Georgetown law school were unemployed 10 months after graduation. Over 10% of Georgetown grads worked in these supposed public interest law school funded jobs. Only 74% of grads obtained a FT, LT, bar passage required job. If these fellowships were truly created as a path to public interest law, then give us the data on where these grads end up a year after graduation. Give us the results of a public interest law employer survey indicating employers prefer grads with experience in public interest law fellowships. More than likely, Georgetown is just trying to prop up their abysmal placement rates to fill seats and get their hands on student loan dollars. The school did churn out 650+ grads in 2016.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com