tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post7797275516735815291..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: LLM-Light: The Return of the Not-JDsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-69007664455672562402017-06-15T08:06:11.929-06:002017-06-15T08:06:11.929-06:00"It's sometimes helpful for small claims,..."It's sometimes helpful for small claims, some types of family-related disputes, and other matters in which one or both parties are unlikely to be represented by counsel. "<br /><br />Good point, Old Guy, I'll concede that as part of my ADR-rant. dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-84702358854827874292017-06-14T16:51:20.885-06:002017-06-14T16:51:20.885-06:00Ok, this is depressing. I attended UM ls eons ago...Ok, this is depressing. I attended UM ls eons ago; it was a solid second level ls, placing a few top grads in top jobs, but the rest of us at least had a chance to get some sort of job as a lawyer, since the school had a solid reputation locally. And it was very, very inexpensive to attend. We even had a smattering of students from across the East Coast, as even out of state tuition was reasonable.<br />Fast forward to now: the school is exorbitantly expensive-proposed in-state tuition for 2017 is over 35K in state-and almost 66K OOS(!). This doesn't include the many and various fees/books/living expenses. And its job placement statistics are a horror show; just take a look at the ABA numbers in conjunction with the LST analysis. <br />And this phoney-baloney, absolutely worthless Master's degree finally and completely cements its status as a scam school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50685791419209498492017-06-13T08:50:08.534-06:002017-06-13T08:50:08.534-06:00Funny you should say that.
Last night, my friend ...Funny you should say that.<br /><br />Last night, my friend (an unemployed PhD) told me about one of her former classmates who couldn't go out with us because "he's studying for his law classes." So, what "law classes" is this guy taking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33823584312113302802017-06-12T13:38:13.699-06:002017-06-12T13:38:13.699-06:00Yeah...like anyone interested in patent law is goi...Yeah...like anyone interested in patent law is going to go for this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63793409508379285022017-06-11T14:02:38.393-06:002017-06-11T14:02:38.393-06:00@Old Guy -- you've obviously never practiced t...@Old Guy -- you've obviously never practiced toilet law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58675514342498330572017-06-09T17:57:16.065-06:002017-06-09T17:57:16.065-06:00"Lawyers almost always unnecessarily drive-up..."Lawyers almost always unnecessarily drive-up the cost of litigation"? That's greatly exaggerated. I agree that many lawyers run their bills up or at least show insufficient regard for their clients' financial interests, but many others (myself among them) discourage ill-advised lawsuits, refuse to undertake vexatious actions, advise clients of the costs and risks of litigation, reduce bills without being asked, and perform <i>pro bono</i> work. Certainly I never have "dangled" anything before anyone in an attempt to enrich myself.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-71812754500803414302017-06-09T16:49:03.068-06:002017-06-09T16:49:03.068-06:00"Mandating it for all cases with "x"..."Mandating it for all cases with "x" is as stupid as using a screwdriver on every project with "wood." But self-interested gurus are gonna guru." Mediation is a very useful tool for avoiding the costs and unpredictability of a trial. That is why it is so often successful. Of course, less successful these days as Insurers are becoming more tight fisted in the wake of all of the attorney advertising and churning of cases.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-71387302852879018072017-06-09T16:47:28.005-06:002017-06-09T16:47:28.005-06:00I used to think the same thing until I watched the...I used to think the same thing until I watched these guys at work. These seven figure awards are based on the evidence, and so never reversed or remitted for the amount of the award alone. A life care plan over twenty or so years, a lost earning capacity claim... the figures build up very quickly. That and the technique used to present the case to the jury. Some trial lawyers are simply gifted or get there through grit. True, most insurance policies don't have that kind of coverage, but in States like Florida with strong bad-faith laws, still can be collected from the insurer. Even without third party bad faith, the insurer can still be liable to the insured for exposing him/her to a large excess judgment by refusing to settle for reasonable dollars... as many insurers these days refuse to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-3320695126809234672017-06-09T14:38:02.086-06:002017-06-09T14:38:02.086-06:00I totally agree, but the problem isn't the wor...I totally agree, but the problem isn't the worthlessness of skill at trial practice, it's just the dearth of opportunities to use that skill. I loved jury trial work, but there's just so little of it. <br /><br />In criminal law, I found it very hard to get cases to go to trial except in a few rare sets of circumstances- 1) client is dead to rights on something horrible and you're just going in there to get beat up so the prosecutor can get a life sentence or 2) the prosecutor pushes forward with a weak case and you can't get it dismissed or plead down. Most of the time your client is dead to rights on something mickey mouse so everyone is eager to make a deal. Your client avoids tons of prison time for something he obviously did and the prosecutor gets to slap a nobody on the wrist for something small time. It's very rare that the prosecutor will push forward with a case they know they stand a decent chance of losing and it's very rare that a murder/carjacking/etc headed for life/cap will not get the PD. <br /><br />In family, there aren't jury trials and the amount of drama is just too damn high to make it enjoyable. <br /><br />In civil, it's all mickey mouse stuff unless you specialize in PI and sue companies with deep pockets. As a rule, nobody in civil has anything worth suing over. There are plenty of exceptions, but the rule is what you have to live with on a day to day basis. If someone upper middle class like me can be judgment and garnishment proof, anyone can. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73618633543360542432017-06-09T11:03:40.640-06:002017-06-09T11:03:40.640-06:00Mediation is a tool like anything else. Mandating...Mediation is a tool like anything else. Mandating it for all cases with "x" is as stupid as using a screwdriver on every project with "wood." But self-interested gurus are gonna guru.<br /><br />It's very useful in the right cases - clients with aggressive valuations who need to be told their weaknesses by a third party, uncertain legal theories for two risk-averse sides, etc.<br /><br />Law School Truth Centerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166092871374037640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39852254392341260782017-06-09T10:01:25.175-06:002017-06-09T10:01:25.175-06:00ADR is a scam, but so is litigation.
Lawyers almo...ADR is a scam, but so is litigation.<br /><br />Lawyers almost always unnecessarily drive-up the cost of litigation for no good reason, other than to extract money from their clients. One great way of doing this is to dangle "treble damages" in front of the client. The client would have to be really sophisticated not to fall for that.<br /><br />At the end of the day, however, it all boils down to there being too many lawyers. This glut of attorneys has turned us into parasites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23421850879762828712017-06-09T01:36:11.018-06:002017-06-09T01:36:11.018-06:00I have watched wonderful lawyers turn routine hern...I have watched wonderful lawyers turn routine herniated disk cases routinely settling for 25 or 50K into seven figure verdicts. <br /><br />Seven figures start at 1 million dollars. Anyone obtaining that kind of result for routine herniated disk cases will inevitably encounter appeals for excessive awards and that's assuming there is that amount of insurance coverage to begin with, as with auto accidents there usually is not even including plaintiff's underinsured motorist. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45423574885387362432017-06-08T22:41:06.518-06:002017-06-08T22:41:06.518-06:00Trial by combat is arguably still available in som...Trial by combat is arguably still available in some states, mainly in the eastern part of the US. It wasn't abolished in England until the first part of the nineteenth century, so it should still be part of the law any jurisdiction that received English law before that time, unless it has been abolished by legislation or jurisprudence or is inconsistent with constitutional law.<br /><br />In practice, of course, it would never be countenanced.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81219422495755425262017-06-08T21:32:23.596-06:002017-06-08T21:32:23.596-06:00NYU started the trend
http://www.law.nyu.edu/mslta...NYU started the trend<br />http://www.law.nyu.edu/msltax<br /><br />CPAs like me are not going to pay for a JD, nor this MSL shit. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32251445110662044602017-06-08T18:04:38.258-06:002017-06-08T18:04:38.258-06:00I want to start an ADR outfit where the cases are ...I want to start an ADR outfit where the cases are solved by the old Code Duello.... pistols or sabers. <br /><br />Or, how about Inquisitorial Arbitration? Torture both parties and then make a binding decision. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23822659445381146152017-06-08T17:07:57.282-06:002017-06-08T17:07:57.282-06:00"You do not and have never needed legal train..."You do not and have never needed legal training (of any kind) to mediate disputes" This is just as wrong as the above posts suggesting that mediation is useless. Only a Lawyer who knows how to prepare and try case will get top dollar in mediation and of course a lawyer needs to understand the law to understand the legal issues to consider when settling a case, as well as have experience to understand the pros and cons of going to trial. You guys want to pan the legal profession as a scam...fine...I suppose law school is too expensive and people who go there often drowning in debt... but you have no idea of what you are talking about if you don't think legal training and experience is absolutely essential to having good results in Court cases or in alternative resolution. There are still lawyers who routinely kill it in a courtroom. That is not luck... that is skill. Lawyers who do not know the insides of a courtroom will always settle cheap... and those who do, will always get better settlements than if they did not try cases. Most great trial lawyers though are not born.. they are made, through hard work and effort of LEARNING how to present a case to a jury. I have watched wonderful lawyers turn routine herniated disk cases routinely settling for 25 or 50K into seven figure verdicts. Positive thinking is of course a necessity in this game, as is tenacity, perseverance and effort. Ability is a must, but ability can be obtained through experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46602187269287289352017-06-08T13:11:56.239-06:002017-06-08T13:11:56.239-06:00You do not and have never needed legal training (o...You do not and have never needed legal training (of any kind) to mediate disputes. Successful mediators have good "people skills" like the ability to listen and to empathize, a conciliatory attitude, etc. I never understood why people think legal training is needed or even helpful to the process.Old Ruster from the former JDJunkyardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599010650047438263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63918682756085925532017-06-08T11:19:01.337-06:002017-06-08T11:19:01.337-06:00It's sometimes helpful for small claims, some ...It's sometimes helpful for small claims, some types of family-related disputes, and other matters in which one or both parties are unlikely to be represented by counsel. <br /><br />About 98% of cases—civil and criminal alike—are settled or abandoned. That happens quite without the help of ADR. When both parties are represented, ADR usually doesn't achieve much other than the enrichment of the ADR practitioner, who is likely to be all but useless if not trained in law.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-88840955467728422092017-06-08T11:14:34.948-06:002017-06-08T11:14:34.948-06:00If it would be advantageous to "have a backgr...If it would be advantageous to "have a background" in the sense of having an MSL, there's already a glut of lawyers who have way more background than you that are desperate for gainful employment. <br /><br />The truth is that outside of actual litigation (ie, opening/closing arguments, jury picking, eliciting testimony, motion practice, depos, etc), lawyers aren't really worth a whole lot. Sadly, almost nothing goes to trial anymore, so lawyers have mostly become glorified paper pushers that are essentially saying "we'll fill out the right forms without making any rookie mistakes." Around the time I quit, I was considering writing a software system that would have automated about 90 percent of my practice, including scouring jail databases to generate marketing material. I would have needed a secretary to hold down the fort while I was in court, but that was about it. But the sad truth is that 99 percent of defendants end up with govt appointed counsel, even for conflict work, so you're automating your way to poverty. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17571574729187035322017-06-08T10:59:42.576-06:002017-06-08T10:59:42.576-06:00It's mandatory in Florida and other places bec...It's mandatory in Florida and other places because people think it will "help." I guess you could argue that it "does," in that people settle all the time, and the dockets are full to be sure. The question becomes: did ADR do it, or did people just get so strung out and exhausted that one side or the other or both capitulated?<br /><br />Did they really get their day in court? Or did they just compromise? Depends on your view, I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-68168199253917231712017-06-08T10:06:42.676-06:002017-06-08T10:06:42.676-06:00Really? Mediation is ordered as a matter of law i...Really? Mediation is ordered as a matter of law in Florida in ALL of our civil litigation cases. Cases do settle in litigation.... all of the time. Its up to the parties of course.... at the least mediation gets people talking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39303938882252846952017-06-08T07:45:31.451-06:002017-06-08T07:45:31.451-06:00Exactly. The whole point of the civil court syste...Exactly. The whole point of the civil court system, in my view, is to submit a dispute to a decision-maker because the adults themselves were unable to work things out. <br /><br />If it could have been worked out, would there be a suit in the first place (for that matter, what is the sound of one hand clapping, while we're at it)? I would argue no, and all ADR does is prolong and rehash the pain of what the parties have already been through, which leads them back to why they filed. It's arrogance on the part of the ADR-mafia to think, "oh, if they only considered our learned opinions on this, with no real factual understanding of the underlying dispute, there would be no need for a trial at all." <br /><br />The argument always boils down to "well, hey, look, trial is a crap-shoot and expensive to boot, do you really want to go there? Why not just compromise?" Yep, we knew that option already, thanks. Do you really think we didn't consider that before the court ordered us to spend all day in a conference room?dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77352663863045599752017-06-08T02:32:22.430-06:002017-06-08T02:32:22.430-06:00ADR is such a fucking scam. All that money going t...ADR is such a fucking scam. All that money going to overpaid mediators whose sum contribution is generally something along the lines of "And how does that make you feel?" I've attended a lot of mediations in my almost 20 years of practice, and have seen mediation work exactly once in all that time. <br /><br />On another note, my alma mater was taken over by the ADR mafia (none of whom ever seem to have had real jobs in the legal profession) and believe you me, those folks are all about the cash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-84257750187361989052017-06-08T01:35:09.163-06:002017-06-08T01:35:09.163-06:00People "who want to know more about" som...People "who want to know more about" something read a book; they don't get a fucking master's degree without even knowing the rudiments.<br /><br />Imagine a master's degree in architecture for people who can't tell the Ionic order from the Doric. Or a master's in math for people who don't know the multiplication table.<br /><br />This "Master of Science in Law" merely panders to a taste for prestige. It's of no professional or academic value whatsoever; it merely enables the bearer to claim a master's degree. As a source of prestige, however, this worthless degree is about as advantageous as a diploma mill's PhD.<br /><br />And alternative dispute resolution is indeed highly overrated. Most of the "non-legal professionals" in this "field" merely propose to split the difference. A fat lot of good that does.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21432177104419622182017-06-07T17:10:33.024-06:002017-06-07T17:10:33.024-06:00If a JD is worth a million bucks, a Master of Scie...If a JD is worth a million bucks, a Master of Science in Law **has** to be worth at least half a million bucks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com