tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post7399056925300785053..comments2024-03-27T20:23:56.493-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Missing the obvious in American higher educationUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79949492186714331332014-06-16T09:34:34.981-06:002014-06-16T09:34:34.981-06:00Anonymous, you familiar with the "Confessions...Anonymous, you familiar with the "Confessions of College Professor" blog? I think you will find yourself agreeing with his also anonymous comments. Check it out at: http://professorconfess.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-722212674269988542013-10-16T12:37:48.834-06:002013-10-16T12:37:48.834-06:00I'm cynical about all of this, because at any ...I'm cynical about all of this, because at any time the federal government could reduce loan eligibility forcing schools to lower tuition. Instead, what I saw in law school was loan eligibility march in lock step with tuition increases. <br /><br />Of course, this is both parties. On the front end you've got collusion with schools to allow prices to rise precipitously, and on the back end you've got bullshit led by Republicans (and parroted by Democrats) urging (and accomplishing) the removal of bankruptcy in order to save the government and institutional players from the defaults that are inevitable given the gap between cost to students and wages of students. <br /><br />Anytime I hear a politician propose a "solution" that does not involve a frank confrontation of the fact that the government is responsible for creating and incentivizing price inflation, I know it's a bunch of horseshit. <br /><br />No one wants to talk about the inescapable tension between the goals of subsidizing educational costs and price inflation. When you throw a bunch of money at something, the price goes up. <br /><br />Instead we just hear meme-eque propaganda from two "ideological" extremes: education should be "free" (let's subsidize the hell out of it) vs. individual responsibility (let's not have bankruptcy protection). Meeting in the mathematical middle produces the kind of horrible, exploitative, unstable and failing system we have now. <br /><br />Having experienced the system as a poor person, I would choose no subsidies at all, because that gives me and others a shot at affording it ourselves. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-66785038944753553182013-10-16T03:45:50.307-06:002013-10-16T03:45:50.307-06:00You think only for-profit schools make a killing o...You think only for-profit schools make a killing off students? Non-profits make "profit" that is not given to owners, but to the employees - ie professors - in the form of benefits - raises, sabbaticals, grants, funding for this and that, housing stipends. Especially elite private schools like Harvard, Yale...and especially their law schools. Federal records showed donations from Princeton employees in the 2012 presidential campaign favored Obama over Romney 155 to 2 ... and those 2 were a visiting lecturer and a janitor.<br /><br />Yes, this is a left-right thing. The LEFT owns higher ed, except for a 5-10% of professors and some for-profit technical schools, which Im guessing are politically neutral and would turn against whoever threatened to stop the Fed govt from guaranteeing student loans.<br /><br />Greedy left wing professors have screwed the middle class by raising tuitions faster than inflation annually. Both parties have presided over the Fed govt's guarantees for student loans. Only libertarians/conservatives want to see those guarantees ended or reduced in some way, and you know as well as I do that leftists would scream bloody murder if the GOP actually proposed something.<br /><br />"You are anti-science! Conservatives hate education! Blah blah blah Sarah Palin blah blah blah"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-30910288473086488782013-10-15T06:56:22.762-06:002013-10-15T06:56:22.762-06:00The higher education sector in America is the most...The higher education sector in America is the most overpriced and least efficient in the world (as is its medical care sector, but that's another story). What is obvious from this, although its hard to confront, is that the higher education industry is hopelessly corrupt and riddled with graft. Every layer of higher education is fill of rent-seeking non-productive middlemen all taking their cut. It would be hard for Americans to acknowledge this, as such systemic corruption isn't supposed to occur in America, and certainly not in such a respected industry. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-71665855323726113472013-10-15T01:28:29.531-06:002013-10-15T01:28:29.531-06:00There was included a proposal to control runaway c...There was included a proposal to control runaway costs that the federal loan program currently supports. Of course none of these proposals have seen the light of day yet. Nothing has changed. More than double the number of law students the market can absorb and run away cost increases in higher education continue. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-91579044030440655982013-10-14T23:46:33.209-06:002013-10-14T23:46:33.209-06:00I always loved it when the professors and the educ...I always loved it when the professors and the educational establishment claimed that graduates in general were too focused on money and didn't look at the worth of college outside of economic concerns. Yes, these are the same people who raised tuition so high that one has to mortgage one's soul to attend. And they say WE are the ones that are too money-oriented? <br /><br />Uh, yes, when I have to mortgage my soul to attend, I do kind of tend to focus on employment outcomes. But of course, that's all MY doing. Sky-high tuition had absolutely NOTHING to do with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45752333949212567652013-10-14T21:15:11.046-06:002013-10-14T21:15:11.046-06:00on the other hand, there are conservatives making ...on the other hand, there are conservatives making a gold mine on for-profit schools that teach useless skills (i.e. "take out second mortgage and get a new skill for the new global economy"). This isn't a lefty or righty thing. It's a money thing (some of my buddies from b-school have been investing in these institutions, and it's amazing to watch the returns). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-1112772489792385952013-10-14T18:56:36.832-06:002013-10-14T18:56:36.832-06:00How does Obama's plan force schools to compete...How does Obama's plan force schools to compete on price? Price is the only thing wrong with higher education. Without price inflation people don't need to borrow to attend school, and they can make their own choices and face their own consequences. More choice is better. <br /><br />The problem is that the huge subsidies and central goals like an arbitrary number of people should have an arbitrary degree, ***are The Cause of price inflation.***<br /><br />So, you have fewer schools, each of which just costs more and more. <br /><br />More federal control, less choice, more fascist alliances between schools and government. Less free market. Horrible. I won't go in for Stalinist 5-year plans in the centrally planned economy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-7932830564016877842013-10-14T14:35:30.537-06:002013-10-14T14:35:30.537-06:00Nomenklatura: A great Russian word that all Americ...Nomenklatura: A great Russian word that all Americans should come to know and understand. The Nomenklatura were a social class in the old Soviet Union that enjoyed an upper-middle class sort of lifestyle, because they had the patronage of somebody with political power. Tenured academics have very cushy jobs, with relatively comfortable incomes provided by state-enabled debt serfdom of the next generation. Not exactly the KGB, but I'd argue they are Nomenklatura nonetheless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2235801835460163502013-10-14T13:25:22.793-06:002013-10-14T13:25:22.793-06:00Bravo, good post. The left wingers who run law sch...Bravo, good post. The left wingers who run law schools are conservative in the small "c" sense - keep everything the way it is, no matter how bad. Tuition must keep rising. America needs more lawyers. Teach law by the Socratic method. Law must take 3 years. At the graduate level. Professors salaries must rise annually. EtcAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33455778288471831832013-10-14T12:25:07.201-06:002013-10-14T12:25:07.201-06:00Almost without exception, an individual or organiz...Almost without exception, an individual or organization that plays the "for it's own sake" card is trying to maintain the ability to extract wealth without being subjected to rational scrutiny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-35248366777603603552013-10-14T12:16:35.725-06:002013-10-14T12:16:35.725-06:00Frank Bruni was never the same after the Mike Tyso...Frank Bruni was never the same after the Mike Tyson fight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33350164502593728932013-10-14T12:02:41.695-06:002013-10-14T12:02:41.695-06:00Agreed. MBAs, for example, don't have any phi...Agreed. MBAs, for example, don't have any philosophical problem correlating cost of degree with professional success. It's what they trade on.<br /><br />Applying the same logic to a JD, "defending liberty" and "pursuing justice" clearly ain't free then, y'all. <br /><br />But "I teach, therefore I deserve to get paid a tenured-sum." You, in contrast, actually represent the indigent, but you should do this because Pro Bono and 'Merica. <br /><br />I swear, the establishment is masterful in their duplicity.dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-51570460604042436772013-10-14T11:44:03.904-06:002013-10-14T11:44:03.904-06:00"Holistic admissions" is just cover for ..."Holistic admissions" is just cover for favoring rich kids.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39324598185401753132013-10-14T10:41:08.181-06:002013-10-14T10:41:08.181-06:00The Valvoline Dean is laughing right now as he spe...The Valvoline Dean is laughing right now as he speeds on in his Mercedes AMG which runs on the souls of his indebted grads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42554882255854258632013-10-14T10:24:06.965-06:002013-10-14T10:24:06.965-06:00The real issue is the nature of the JD. If it real...The real issue is the nature of the JD. If it really is education for the sake if education and employment outcomes are irrelevant, then the JD is really just a graduate liberal arts degree. In such case, tuition should be the same as other graduate liberal arts degrees. <br /><br />If in fact it is a professional degree, then of course the professional success of the graduates if JD programs is not just relevant but the most critical indicator of a JD program's value. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72615197350939670522013-10-14T10:10:03.277-06:002013-10-14T10:10:03.277-06:00When the schools measure my worth to them as a num...When the schools measure my worth to them as a number (GPA, LSAT) and ignore the broader me, I cannot be faulted for measuring the worth of the school in similarly narrow ways. Like employment stats. So enough of this holistic expectation that students should consider intangibles when the law schools I applied to ignored my four years of college with a 4.0 in STEM, my graduate degree, and admitted a kid with a 165 LSAT and a 3.5 in poli sci over my 160.<br /><br />And don't get me started over publishing employment stats and then telling us to ignore them...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50891095698940701432013-10-14T09:54:16.261-06:002013-10-14T09:54:16.261-06:00The comment about "seeing college in pecuniar...The comment about "seeing college in pecuniary terms" frames us as a bunch of single-minded gold-diggers who instrumentalize everything (including lofty Education™) for crude plutocratic ends.<br /><br />What with the monstrous cost of law school, any prospective student would be a fool <i>not</i> to look at it in pecuniary terms. The fact is that people go to law school with the intention and expectation of working in law. Hardly anyone would fork over a quarter of a million dollars and blow three years on law school as a detached exercise in intellectual stimulation. Law school is professional training, so, yes, people do consider its utility for entering the legal profession. There is nothing crass about that.<br /><br />Who really sees law school in pecuniary terms? The goddamn profe$$ors and administrators whose cushy jobs and benefits (some of which, such as sabbaticals, find no parallel elsewhere) are paid for by the law-school scam. The bastards laugh all the way to the bank.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-4532689094751077622013-10-14T09:24:31.533-06:002013-10-14T09:24:31.533-06:00Another way to do this is with outcome-based limit...Another way to do this is with outcome-based limits on lending, as the Obama administration has hinted at. If the outcome is that only half of students get full-time permanent jobs as lawyers 9 or 10 months out, the school can be limited to that half in federal funding, or to that half plus 5% of the class.<br />Medical schools accept less than half the applicants over all. No one is saying the medical schools discriminate against underrepresented minorites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-55605489586918207092013-10-14T09:03:07.855-06:002013-10-14T09:03:07.855-06:00This is another way of the academic thieves saying...This is another way of the academic thieves saying "Don't worry about the jobs. We're providing you entitled whiners with an education. This will benefit you so greatly in life (but we can't explain why)."Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54787313709011345412013-10-14T08:16:01.726-06:002013-10-14T08:16:01.726-06:00ScamDeans and LawProfs will always be disingenous ...ScamDeans and LawProfs will always be disingenous and conflated on the subject of (1) the "need" for higher education with (2) actual student outcomes.<br /><br />Over the last 40-50 years, degree inflation has reached the point where you all but need a college degree to work at Starbucks, let alone attempt anything else. Law School is one of the worst offenders in this regard, when contemplating overall cost of the degree and decades of JD overproduction.<br /><br />But they won't see it. It's easy to say "don't focus on the outcomes" when you yourself come from well-to-do families and high social capital. <br /><br />Students need jobs to service the outrageous debt that was assumed under false pretenses, you brood of vipers. It's really quite simple. Cut the cost, and cut student suffering in turn. You wont do this, however, as BMWs and fancy Brownstones don't pay for themselves (except in NY), so take your hypocrisy and silver-spooned-pity-parties someplace else. That is all.dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.com