tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post7234555685291402131..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: The Brass Ring Is Hollow: An Overview of the Biglaw MessUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-72504275668083784492013-11-05T13:51:12.530-07:002013-11-05T13:51:12.530-07:00You have to beat up outside counsel and keep them ...You have to beat up outside counsel and keep them in fear of losing business or they might get lazy and start doing a bad job. As it is, they charge $750 for a 1/2 hour interview at the PTO and that's already ridiculous in my book. If the associate gets 1/3 of that they are making a ridiculous amount of money. They signed up for that. They actually like being treated like dirt, like curs being tossed a handful of scraps.<br /><br />Yes, and it's true that no one's job is secure. That's why you make yourself indispensable, keep honing marketable skills, and keep one eye open for a better opportunity. It's a harsh world people. You have to look out for number one. You do what it takes to survive, and if you need to get dirty, you do it and forget about the "nobility of the profession." <br /><br />What was "noble" about all y'all getting fleeced by the law school establishment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-89715536512733887812013-11-04T20:26:18.395-07:002013-11-04T20:26:18.395-07:0010:44 is a psychopath. I enjoyed my inhouse gig fo...10:44 is a psychopath. I enjoyed my inhouse gig for a few years largely in part because I partnered up with great lawyers all over the country who were nice human beings. The job was fun because we respected each other. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-5739878220182517902013-11-04T09:44:32.323-07:002013-11-04T09:44:32.323-07:00Yes, I am lucky. I finally got a break, but it to...Yes, I am lucky. I finally got a break, but it took me the better part of 8-9 years of struggling before I was able to get out. Doing the doc review is a going nowhere proposition. Once you're on that hamster wheel, it's hard to break into anything else because you are viewed as damaged goods. Add on the JD-stigma and you are just asking for problems. BTW, my benefits are great, I have a career path now, and hope to be making a salaring exceeding my mid-law salary in a couple years. No more screaming partners, high stress, poor benefits. I recently just deleted all my doc review contacts because I am convinced I will not be doing that crap ever again. No more slimey legal temp agencies, either. Update Legal - Kiss my ass!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77245221134882687892013-11-03T12:10:12.731-07:002013-11-03T12:10:12.731-07:00The OP is execllent but I believe we should differ...The OP is execllent but I believe we should differentiate between the problems most professionals can expect to have in the modern economy from the problems that are particularly applicable to lawyers, especially lawyers just embarking on their profession.<br /><br />Yes, BigLaw is suffering but in a large part this is due to recent global economic adjustments which have affected a lot of white collar industries. A significant number of professionals have found themselves un- and under employed and to that extent, the unemployment figures for the legal profession is just a matter of degree. However, young lawyers who become unemployed face much bleaker prospects because:<br /><br />1. The amount of debt they have;<br /><br />2. The fact that whatever skills they have acquired are not readily marketable ("JD preferred" is largely a myth and generally, their skill set is especailly narrow if they have worked in BigLaw);<br /><br />3. Legal market saturation due to law schools accepting many more students than jobs available, and <br /><br />4. the high cost/high barriers of relocating outside of the jurisdiction where one is licensed.<br /><br />From anecdotal evidence, getting hired after losing a job depends a lot more on the candidate being young, thin and good looking than on the CV when everyone has a stellar CV.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-13686571398003992182013-11-03T09:39:23.346-07:002013-11-03T09:39:23.346-07:00There's no shortage of sadistic attorneys eage...There's no shortage of sadistic attorneys eager to teach newcomers who's in charge, that's for sure. It's just another part of the Ponzi scheme. They get their kicks not from fair competition with experienced attorneys, but from tricking the newbies who want to become attorneys.<br /><br />Cowards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-63314318483221915692013-11-03T09:33:23.432-07:002013-11-03T09:33:23.432-07:00I don't have any figures right now, but you mi...I don't have any figures right now, but you might take the percentage of Af-Am graduates from Top 6 or Top 14 JD factories, and use that to estimate their Big Firm presence as associates. <br /><br />That method is much better than spouting off and being an idiot, even though it's easier just to be an idiot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78051237706450454472013-11-03T09:23:16.184-07:002013-11-03T09:23:16.184-07:00The thing in housers do not understand is how unst...The thing in housers do not understand is how unstable their position is and how small a probability there is of having a career. Once you hit age 45 or 50, either you are promoted to the top legal slot - or a managerial legal slot in a large legal department - or you are un/ underemployed, with just a few exceptions for older lawyers still working in non-promoted slots.<br /><br />Good luck holding your job till you want to retire - you are going to need it. If you lose that job, you are on the temp market - no one hires fired in housers unless you have a good story to tell. That a 35 year old was promoted and you are not/ no longer a fit in the legal department - it is NOT a good story, and you will not get another full-time permanent legal job. Those are reserved for the youngsters coming out of biglaw.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-26124030294156426772013-11-02T23:39:12.017-06:002013-11-02T23:39:12.017-06:00I, the lawland prophet, The Infamous John Bungsola...I, the lawland prophet, The Infamous John Bungsolaphagus, exposed and detailed the existence of the lawland scam bedrock that is now known as the billable hour scam. I fact, I coined that phrase. And you are right. The cat is out of the bag and it ain't going back in. Clients are hip to the billable hour scams and they are not taking it any more. God bless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85854815223877977812013-11-02T21:11:14.848-06:002013-11-02T21:11:14.848-06:00I wouldn't call myself a dirtbag - I'm mor...I wouldn't call myself a dirtbag - I'm more of a sadist.<br />These young associates are just so clueless about what's important in life. I feel it's my job to educate them. To accelerate their understanding of the cruelty of the path they willingly chose.<br />So really, I'm actually doing them a service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-44206838155650212752013-11-02T17:54:26.818-06:002013-11-02T17:54:26.818-06:00The instability is the real problem in the legal p...The instability is the real problem in the legal profession today. Everything in law is unstable - law firms, in house. Lawyers who hold a legal job for years are few and far between and are very lucky. That goes no matter what school you went to. Harvard or Yale does not protect you from unemployment or underemployment down the road.<br /><br />The problem is extreme oversupply of lawyers, and law is very risky today - even from elite law schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49189941169044102372013-11-02T17:50:53.603-06:002013-11-02T17:50:53.603-06:00You are lucky you got out of doc review and into a...You are lucky you got out of doc review and into a non-legal position in a big company. Not everyone makes it there, and not everyone keeps the non-legal job longer term.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-14569546512742272362013-11-02T12:19:47.448-06:002013-11-02T12:19:47.448-06:00anyone have a link to the full New Yorker article?...anyone have a link to the full New Yorker article?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-56491483817958149222013-11-02T12:17:15.411-06:002013-11-02T12:17:15.411-06:00http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/10/31/number-of-lsat...http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/10/31/number-of-lsat-test-takers-is-down-45-since-2009/<br /><br />"October LSAT takers numbered 33,673 versus the 37,780 who sat for the test the year before. It’s the fewest number of October test takers since 1998..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80585351661917321752013-11-02T07:37:17.524-06:002013-11-02T07:37:17.524-06:00You sound like a wonderful peron...just another di...You sound like a wonderful peron...just another dirtbag lawyer eating its ownAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79151136837852607942013-11-01T16:15:53.805-06:002013-11-01T16:15:53.805-06:00Even biglaw PARTNERS aren't stable unless you&...Even biglaw PARTNERS aren't stable unless you're an equity partner with a name on or near the front door.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73335211118904886552013-11-01T12:37:45.477-06:002013-11-01T12:37:45.477-06:00"...survived in this pitiful excuse for a pro..."...survived in this pitiful excuse for a profession"...Law is what supposedly creates and maintains our civility but there are too many laws, too many lawyers and too many law schools. Of course, there is not enough money for everyone and then it's not even a profession, at best, a hobby, because it's unsustainable to earn a living at the standard of a profession. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-27369576539192624092013-11-01T12:29:08.333-06:002013-11-01T12:29:08.333-06:00"The jump from employee to partner is where t..."The jump from employee to partner is where the meritocracy takes over from the affirmative action-ocracy."<br /><br />It's not "meritocracy", really - it's that growing up summering in Maine, wintering in Palm Beach, and having gone to the right prep school are an enormous advantage in bringing in the level of business you need from your buddies who now control large corporations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-23906808530671892042013-11-01T12:22:05.640-06:002013-11-01T12:22:05.640-06:00I hope that one of these days "profits per pa...I hope that one of these days "profits per partner" take a huge hit. <br /><br />It has to happen. Those equity partners are pigs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-64816806776793733472013-11-01T12:18:49.881-06:002013-11-01T12:18:49.881-06:00You're a c!ever devi!, you.You're a c!ever devi!, you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-17013939677040188572013-11-01T12:16:35.337-06:002013-11-01T12:16:35.337-06:00There's a nice point there, that rankings are ...There's a nice point there, that rankings are comparative, and you can keep your ranking even with reduced standards. But the opposite side of the coin is that rankings don't mean anything if Number One has a median score of 162 or whatever.<br /><br />I'm waiting for that day, and it's going to mean the end of prestige as we know it. Yes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75800837610112888902013-11-01T11:44:13.585-06:002013-11-01T11:44:13.585-06:00This is true. I work in-house and we beat the piss...This is true. I work in-house and we beat the piss out of our outside counsel. I go home every day at 5:00 PM, secure in the knowledge that some burnt-out associate will be working for the next 5 hours to produce an office action response or draft a set of patent claims for my review the next morning. And they had better have all the angles covered or they'll lose out the next time we need some work done.<br /><br />And you know what? I might make less than half of what they make but they're losing their late twenties, are making less than me per hour, and will likely end up getting let go because some partner doesn't like then. They chose this life.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29343016995506478732013-11-01T11:43:41.882-06:002013-11-01T11:43:41.882-06:00@9:39. Totally agree with everything you say. Wh...@9:39. Totally agree with everything you say. What aspiring 1L's fail to realize is how unstable the legal profession is as a whole. You might get lucky and land a biglaw position, however, you might only hold that position for 2 to 5 years before being shown the door. Some people don't even make it past the first year, esp. if they have difficulty passing the bar exam. The issue that lemmings fail to appreciate is what happen AFTER Biglaw? You may not have enough marketability or experience to lateral over to another large firm. Most in-house positions require at least 4 years of experience before they will even consider you. I was shown the door after 2 years, and so was shut out of in-house positions. I wandered aimlessly for 6 years doing document review in a meager attempt to pay down my law school loans. I'm now in a JD-preferred position in a large company. Getting out of the law firms was the best decision in my case. I don't have to worry about billables, the people are friendlier and team-oriented, hours are better, pay is slightly lower, benefits better. law firms are run by tyrants who view you (staff or associate) as money out of their pockets. In corporate America, particularly a publicly-owned company, no one cares - the money is publicly-funded through stock offerings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-38151181361188727312013-11-01T10:40:48.371-06:002013-11-01T10:40:48.371-06:00"Can standards drop any lower?"
As Camp..."Can standards drop any lower?"<br /><br />As Campos has noted, a number of law schools are already basically open admissions.<br /><br />That number will only grow with another 10% drop in the applicant pool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-65774452656466194622013-11-01T10:39:30.285-06:002013-11-01T10:39:30.285-06:00I have survived in this pitiful excuse for a profe...I have survived in this pitiful excuse for a profession for 20 years. I just want to highlight that as bad as the initial employment statistics are, they get worse over time. A biglaw gig lasts only 1-4 or 5 years for the vast majority. I cite to some prior sources from CITI Accounting Group that suggest 80-85% of biglaw associates are gone within 5 years. My anecdotal experience confirms this as true. About half of my former coworkers from 10 years ago are unemployed, and most were graduates of elite schools or at minimum very near the top of the class (well within top 10%) at non-elite schools. A significant percentage of the employed half are underemployed, and a majority of the employed half have had multiple jobs in the last 10 years, i.e. moving around like a migrant worker to remain employed. These sad statistics apply to partners,associates and in house lawyers alike.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78980313481851469692013-11-01T09:58:15.108-06:002013-11-01T09:58:15.108-06:00At any law firm, the only partners who really coun...At any law firm, the only partners who really count are the few equity partners on the Compensation Committee.<br /><br />Non-equity partners get to be on the Holiday Decorations Committee.<br /><br />Staff Attorneys have the privilege of being on the Clean Office Committee.<br /><br />Document Review attorneys serve on a special committee that will assist equity partners if the Staff attorneys have failed to supply the office bathrooms with sufficient toilet paper. I will not describe in detail what they have to do but will leave for Nando.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com