tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post6358273005290868394..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Toxic Debt & No Intrinsic Value (i.e., Your J.D.)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79529978688737433712013-05-03T08:10:29.709-06:002013-05-03T08:10:29.709-06:00If you guys can't see that lenders have a resp...If you guys can't see that lenders have a responsibility to lend only when there is a reasonable assumption to be paid back, then I don't know what to say. Student lenders do no research or underwriting before issuing loans because there is no risk, as loans (i.e. profits) are federally guaranteed.<br /><br />This is exactly the same thing that blew up the housing market-- issuing money to anyone with a pulse, regardless of creditworthiness; federal guarantees of all loans made; (and later, the unlimited inter-bank trading of obscure financial products would collapse the system). <br /><br />Yes, some borrowers couldn't pay their loans and that sucks. But maybe the loans should've never been made in the first place.<br /><br />We've seen it in housing and now we're seeing it in higher ed. Easy credit blew up prices astronomically until the bubble popped.<br /><br />Oh but I guess the bankers were totally innocent in the financial crash and it was all Joe Six-Pack, the borrower's fault.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-19521130696084753132013-05-02T13:58:46.590-06:002013-05-02T13:58:46.590-06:00Student debtors "contribute to the economy&qu...Student debtors "contribute to the economy" by paying back their loans. What, do you think the lenders set the money on fire when they receive it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-19730671162447259072013-05-02T13:12:52.298-06:002013-05-02T13:12:52.298-06:00@645,
I already explained why student debt is di...@645, <br /><br />I already explained why student debt is different. First post, dude. <br /><br />Congress sees the difference, too (that is, turbo-charged leverage for student borrowers). With that leverage comes a price: nondischargeability. Because it is far more destructive to the balance that you speak of to discharge such enormous amounts of money for millions of people. <br /><br />I'm sure that there is one homeless guy out there who - through some Byzantine, exotic method - somehow managed to run up half a million dollars in unsecured debt. <br /><br />The existence of that one homeless guy doesn't require Congress to tear up the bankruptcy rules and write out a $150,000 check to every law school graduate in America. Congress guaranteed the loan, not the borrower.<br /><br />Duh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6728574011618416222013-05-02T11:43:24.553-06:002013-05-02T11:43:24.553-06:00The only responsibilities of a lender are to provi...The only responsibilities of a lender are to provide money to the borrower and to charge no more than the maximum legal interest rate. <br /><br />The borrower's responsibility is to pay back the money on or before the agreed-upon deadline. <br /><br />How strange that my focus is on the borrower!<br /><br />Payday lenders generally charge an APR of several hundred percent. The federal government currently charges 3.4 percent. That isn't "predatory lending."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15926114506137300602013-05-02T11:05:57.601-06:002013-05-02T11:05:57.601-06:00They don't have responsibilities to the borrow...They don't have responsibilities to the borrower. That much, we know. I say, "screw them" when the borrower is irretrievably broke indefinitely. JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42040752145831002242013-05-02T11:04:11.808-06:002013-05-02T11:04:11.808-06:00Considering the overall wealth imbalance between W...Considering the overall wealth imbalance between Wall Street and the working-class, I am not bothered by the flushing of any Wall Street-owned or held debts.JeffMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570176730771111002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-83588725991255518192013-05-02T09:29:08.358-06:002013-05-02T09:29:08.358-06:00It takes two to tango. Why do these anti-scammers ...It takes two to tango. Why do these anti-scammers put all the responsibility on the borrower, but none on the lender? The lender can give to anyone, perform no underwriting, assume no risk, and pull in massive profits. It's called predatory lending.<br /><br />Maybe if the lender was taking into account the price of law school, the economy, and the job-market for lawyers, they would reduce their lending and be less susceptible to defaults. They have responsibilities too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58872516475607938542013-05-02T09:28:31.881-06:002013-05-02T09:28:31.881-06:00Yes, you do have a good point. I work in IP and it...Yes, you do have a good point. I work in IP and it is frustrating on the one hand to explain to the business folks that (1) their great ideas have been done already and they are wasting their time on filing patents and (2) they'll get sued for patent infringement if they proceed with making their widget.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34960525231077860692013-05-02T07:45:00.069-06:002013-05-02T07:45:00.069-06:00What "denial?" If you deny what I wrote...What "denial?" If you deny what I wrote in 2 and 3, I strongly advise you to go to your local courthouse/PACER and check out some ch. 7 petitions. <br /><br />Bankruptcy in general is a serious social problem. It's supposed to be a balance between creditors and the individual's need to have a fresh start. I simply don't see a difference between classifying one category of unsecured debt (student loans) from other categories of voluntary unsecured debt. It's poor policy that leads to indebted young people being unable to contribute to the economy.<br /><br />There are viable arguments supporting it, but I see you've resorted to ad hominem (apparently, because no mature working adult can believe in bankruptcy reform?!?). Have a good day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-53169319124553388462013-05-02T05:46:14.779-06:002013-05-02T05:46:14.779-06:00That's true, but how much of that decline is a...That's true, but how much of that decline is attributable to student loans being non-dischargeable? How many student borrowers even consider that as a factor on the way in?<br /><br /> Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80440061783088538252013-05-01T21:31:38.688-06:002013-05-01T21:31:38.688-06:00^ #1-3. The denial is strong with this one. I can&...^ #1-3. The denial is strong with this one. I can't wake someone up when he's only pretending to be asleep.<br /><br />4. From your attitude, I'm guessing that most if not all of your bills are already paid by someone else. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-25922353199357776422013-05-01T21:22:37.996-06:002013-05-01T21:22:37.996-06:00It doesn't? Law school applications are at a 3...It doesn't? Law school applications are at a 30-year low.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-538561912390176522013-05-01T20:58:10.683-06:002013-05-01T20:58:10.683-06:00Yeah right, Jesus did nothing BUT ask for people t...Yeah right, Jesus did nothing BUT ask for people to give Him tax monies, right? In fact, there's a whole book in the Bible in which Jesus does nothing but say "Gimme gimme gimme gimme" the whole time. It's towards the back.<br /><br />Actually, Jesus called for people to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, SPECIFICALLY in the context of coins that bear his picture. Seeing as how most student loans are owed to the DoE, I don't think you'll get very far claiming that Jesus wants your loans to be discharged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-42022078708831362222013-05-01T18:52:15.734-06:002013-05-01T18:52:15.734-06:001. Poor policy. (You realize that it lends money ...1. Poor policy. (You realize that it lends money that is dischargable in bankruptcy, too, right?)<br /><br />2. Student loans are unsecured. When I said "business debts," I don't mean secured business debts. I mean unsecured business-related debt. Again, if you've ever seen a person who had a failed business and filed Ch. 7, you'd see what I'm talking about. A lot of people try to keep restaurants, dry cleaners, construction companies, etc., floating on credit cards, and they always seem to find a few thousand here and there.<br /><br />3. No. They're more credit-worthy because they have assets and a history of debt repayment. A 90-year old widow is unlikely to file bankruptcy. That doesn't make her credit-worthy. People made student loans - often very high ones, relatively - even when they were dischargable. Bankruptcy is leverage in debt repayment, but it's not nearly as important in the lending equation. Otherwise, people who just filed would be offered considerably more short-term money than they presently are.<br /><br />4. I believe I should have the same power as someone with equivalent debts if my financial situation becomes dire.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-53459568452285358942013-05-01T18:19:30.009-06:002013-05-01T18:19:30.009-06:00"would you be satisfied if gambling debts wer...<br />"would you be satisfied if gambling debts were made nondischargeable in bankruptcy?"<br /><br />No. Have you ever heard of the Lord's prayer? Christianity, along with other major religions, provides for charity and kindness towards those with no reasonable means of repaying their debts.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-71058055280085714572013-05-01T17:45:25.640-06:002013-05-01T17:45:25.640-06:00Yes it is. You should just honor your obligations ...Yes it is. You should just honor your obligations and pay the money back. Saying that you should be able to welsh is OBVIOUSLY asking for a handout.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62049169960299867542013-05-01T17:39:06.927-06:002013-05-01T17:39:06.927-06:00"Student loans should never be discharged. M..."Student loans should never be discharged. Maybe that way people will be discouraged from taking out student loans in the future."<br /><br />That doesn't seem to be working so far...Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-57735590430450762862013-05-01T17:20:21.709-06:002013-05-01T17:20:21.709-06:00One compromise might be to allow partial bankruptc...One compromise might be to allow partial bankruptcy and partial loan guarantees. Maybe 50/50. That way there isn't complete moral hazard on the part of either students or the schools.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-77121429822651355282013-05-01T16:47:17.518-06:002013-05-01T16:47:17.518-06:00To discourage people from gambling, of course.
S...To discourage people from gambling, of course. <br /><br />Student loans should never be discharged. <br /><br />Maybe that way people will be discouraged from taking out student loans in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32374480527981587502013-05-01T16:44:17.580-06:002013-05-01T16:44:17.580-06:00138,
1. Then why would the government lend a huge...138,<br /><br />1. Then why would the government lend a huge sum to someone without first making it impossible for them to welsh on that enormous loan? <br /><br />2. Loans to businesses are more or less secured by the businesses themselves (physical plant, inventory, etc), much as a mortgage is secured by a house. What is a student loan secured by?<br /><br />3. They're "more credit-worthy" BECAUSE of the unlikelihood that they will go bankrupt or fail to pay back the money. Six of one ...<br /><br />4. If you have no financial woes, why is it that you believe your $90K in debt should be discharged, anyway? I'm guessing that you'd rather spend the money on a bitchin new car, right? Are people supposed to feel sorry for deadbeats like you?<br /><br />Or what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54698491796689874522013-05-01T15:43:49.156-06:002013-05-01T15:43:49.156-06:00Why on god's green earth would someone be in f...Why on god's green earth would someone be in favor of making gambling debt nondischargable in bankruptcy? Only a complete F-ing lunatic would support that. <br /><br />Student loans should be fully dischargable after a few years (5-7). That would prevent blatant gaming of the system but would allow people the chance to move on from mistakes and into more socially desirable activities - which is the entire purpose of bankruptcy discharge after all. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67758483168480156522013-05-01T14:38:56.795-06:002013-05-01T14:38:56.795-06:00"Would you lend me ten million dollars, if I ..."Would you lend me ten million dollars, if I could simply blow it all on one fantastic vacation and then declare bankruptcy? Your position is obviously false and indefensible."<br /><br />Whether I would lend you $10M unsecured has nothing to do with the purpose and everything to do with how much in assets and income you have. I would loan Bill Gates $10M unsecured. You are not a billionaire, so I would not loan you $10M.<br /><br />"Even the exceptions you cite - presumably the most extreme cases imaginable - involve far less money than the average law student can have for the asking."<br /><br />If you think 100k or 200k in unsecured debt is the "the most extreme cases imaginable" then you have no idea how bankruptcy works on a practical level and haven't seen a lot of CH. 7 bankruptcy petitions, especially from people with failed business ventures. And student loans are inherently limited to the cost of tuition and living expenses (unsecured debt isn't, and the hypothetical credit limit is irrelevant, anyway).<br /><br />"Rich people can borrow more because they are much less likely to declare bankruptcy - doing so usually means losing all of their houses and investments. So in a way, it's almost as if the loans to them ARE secured."<br /><br />No, that isn't security, and it has nothing to do with security. And rich people can file Ch. 13 and keep the house and cars (not to mention assets they can protect from a bankruptcy), still screwing the unsecureds. Rich people can borrow more on an unsecured basis because they're usually more credit-worthy. Again, finance companies don't work on the risk of filing bankruptcy; they work on the odds of timely repayment.<br /><br />"Sorry to hear about your financial woes."<br /><br />I don't have any.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31780280203065775932013-05-01T14:27:28.228-06:002013-05-01T14:27:28.228-06:00We ask for the same rights as other Americans who ...We ask for the same rights as other Americans who take on voluntary, productive debt. That isn't a "handout," you cretin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-90606956101305966982013-05-01T14:09:43.949-06:002013-05-01T14:09:43.949-06:00Which leads to the disturbing and contempuous-lade...Which leads to the disturbing and contempuous-laden question: Why are they still going to law school at all?<br /><br />AGREED. Yet as the verse in one of the testaments says, "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Keep up the good work of telling the truth everyone!! We must counter the lies of the law school establishment and industrial complex at every opportunity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6047284439567156022013-05-01T12:40:50.445-06:002013-05-01T12:40:50.445-06:00This may be true at your company. I don't wor...This may be true at your company. I don't work there so I don't know. That said the view from the gc's office of a large outfit often entails watching business folks take idiotic risks on low or no profit deals despite advice from in house.<br /><br />In house is often held in contempt by the business side as a result of having to explain tough realities to people who'd prefer to listen to positive but meaningless corporate mantras instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com