tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post5351798750174211968..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: The AALS (Association of American Law Schools) publicizes a dubious claim that 3Ls contributed at least 81.8 million dollars worth of free legal services in 2017Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-83422695990480233262018-03-22T15:47:42.396-06:002018-03-22T15:47:42.396-06:00Hi dybbuk, not on-topic here but JMLS is selling t...Hi dybbuk, not on-topic here but JMLS is selling the school building and shutting down its Savannah law school branch after this semester.<br /><br />http://www.savannahnow.com/news/20180321/savannah-law-school-to-close-after-spring-semesterITOTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-75198404907554214882018-03-22T15:34:08.281-06:002018-03-22T15:34:08.281-06:00https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/savannah-law-sc...https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/savannah-law-school-latest-shut-153546074.html<br /><br />Have not heard of this place before....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46211422787969320592018-03-22T11:14:23.420-06:002018-03-22T11:14:23.420-06:005:57 here....if we assume the typical lawyer has t...5:57 here....if we assume the typical lawyer has the abilities to be an engineer as an alternative career, and would enjoy that profession, then sure the answer is easy. But even those few lawyer types who have top quality stem abilities may not be interested in working in that field. Some people truly do go to lawschool because they believe practicing law is something they would find interesting... and many do. I don't think most public defenders are in it for the money...and those that are probably plan on going private after they develop their trial skills, and maybe their reputation. Anyway, you are right...people need enough money to live... and if the law does not pay them enough to live, then they have to find something else to do... but that is easier said then done depending on their abilities. Isn't the OP of this thread a Public Defender? He probably knows as well as anybody why people go into that field. Maybe he can pipe in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-81282617863108928742018-03-21T06:22:02.516-06:002018-03-21T06:22:02.516-06:00I'm not 5:57, nor do I play one on TV, but her...I'm not 5:57, nor do I play one on TV, but here's the deal. Time was there were a lot fewer lawyers and it was actually pretty easy to make a decent living. That allowed lawyers to pitch in now and then and fight a little injustice without needing to get paid a lot, if at all. Those days are gone. You've got to milk every minute for all it's worth. The system is very broken and at the core of the problem is that salaried lawyers and judges on the state payroll are beating up on people who can't afford to fight back. A few years back a guy from my fish & game club showed up on my doorstep. His wife had accused him of spousal rape to leverage what turned out to be a long-planned divorce. He was looking at 20 years. He made $42,000.00/year which disqualified him for a PD and private defense lawyers wanted $20,000.00, all up front. I warned him I was unqualified but since he was going to have to stop working in about a year due to a back injury I kept the ball in play until he could get a PD. Had he not been able to go on SSI his only hope was a layer who had never defended a felony. You can go to law school to fight injustice but the price is now economic suicide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-30607241080295870462018-03-21T00:24:03.166-06:002018-03-21T00:24:03.166-06:00To 9:57.
This is 5:57.
There are 2 potential pa...To 9:57.<br /><br />This is 5:57. <br /><br />There are 2 potential paths. One, I could go to Harvard undergrad, major in Government, and then go to Harvard Law School, learn criminal law from "Alan Dershowitz" be elected Harvard Law Review President and then become a Public Defender in Philadelphia for instance and make $50k a year.<br /><br />OR. I could go to UC Berkeley and major in electrical engineering and do 4 years of that and then work for Google and make a salary of $200,000 a year starting out of college. <br /><br />Then, I could potentially research potential campaign finance laws and donate to a potential State Attorney Campaign that I found useful (where tax payers are not being wasted) and all within the legal parameters of the law of course because all of this must be done properly. For instance, consider this.<br /><br />Which sounds smarter? <br /><br /><br />http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article203622774.html<br /><br /><br />I think the second option is MUCH better. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21653455525239739202018-03-20T13:39:29.398-06:002018-03-20T13:39:29.398-06:00Uh, 10:01, bubby, they keep pratcing because they ...Uh, 10:01, bubby, they keep pratcing because they cannot afford to retire. Scroll up and read my posts about Connecticut lawyers who are working into their 70's and then stealing huge sums of money or owe their souls to the IRS for back taxes. Think a 77-year-old would keep hustling if he didn't have over half a million in back taxes he has to keep paying on to keep his heavily liened house?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2700741498286244462018-03-19T10:01:29.814-06:002018-03-19T10:01:29.814-06:00You all see only what you want to see, and it is n...You all see only what you want to see, and it is not the fault of the "legal profession" that the educational industry attempts to rape students... that falls on those liberal aholes running those institutions. You all still miss the point and see only what you want to see. If 25% of graduates never practice law, that means 75% of graduates do.... and a certain percentage of those people are going to have successful careers. But then we have to define success...is success having a boring job, but a secure, livable wage over a working life, or is it having a job that somebody finds rewarding and meaningful? Some people do actually find practicing law very rewarding...else maybe somebody can explain to me why so many continue practicing even long after they could have retired?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24337961512031332792018-03-19T09:57:29.183-06:002018-03-19T09:57:29.183-06:005:57...if what you say is correct, that the Justic...5:57...if what you say is correct, that the Justice System runs rampant over people (something I happen to agree with), is that not a reason to go to lawschool...to fight against this injustice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29959785219569361102018-03-19T06:00:03.368-06:002018-03-19T06:00:03.368-06:00Reminds me of the movie The Big Chill when a chara...Reminds me of the movie The Big Chill when a character is asked why she gave uo her goal/dream/mission of being a PD for private practice and she says: "I didn't know they'd be so GUILTY."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-8633507514349852132018-03-18T17:57:15.974-06:002018-03-18T17:57:15.974-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-84279303848168478312018-03-18T17:57:07.605-06:002018-03-18T17:57:07.605-06:00“I have been a PD for 20 years. I have done misdem...“I have been a PD for 20 years. I have done misdemeanor trials, felony trials, dependency work and juvenile. I am tired of doing trials. I believe that 90 to 95% of the trials end in conviction. It does not matter whether they say they are innocent or even if I believe them when they say they are innocent. IF the evidence points to conviction you can bet the jury (in an adult tria) or the judge (in a juvenile trial) will convict. I am so incredibly burnt out, but the idea of learning some other aspect of the law (bankruptcy, tort, whatever) sounds horrible. I am not one for research and writing so I would not want to do appellate law. I feel like the biggest mistake of my life was taking my savings and going to law school. My prior job was a medical records clerk in a hospital back east. I stupidly left to come to California to be a lawyer. I hatted law school, the students were the biggest group of assholes you would ever want to meet - people don't become assholes by going to law school, the law just attracts assholes - and lawyers are a bunch of jerks. The only thing worse than a PD is a cop or a DA. You may be offended by that, but DAs and police have a lot of power - and power corrupts. They have the attitude of "It's easy to convict a guilty man, but you really have to work at it to convict an innocent one." May you never be falsely accused of a crime because you are going to jail regardless of your innocence. And victims are so psychologically messed up by their experience that they don't realize the criminal does not even think twice about what they've done. The victim obsesses over what has happened to them, but to the criminal, it's like stepping on an ant - why would they even think about that experience again? They don't. It takes 4,000. to go to trial. The DAs waste taxpayer money like it's monopoly money. Taking someone to trial for stupid crap like stealing twinkies, or skipping school, or over a traffic ticket. The DAs have no sense of financial responsibility. If you are thinking of going to law school - go do something else.” Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-32420135600576444462018-03-18T17:56:53.686-06:002018-03-18T17:56:53.686-06:00All fake news aside, I worked at a few different p...All fake news aside, I worked at a few different public defender offices in a Mid-Western State and I think what one thing law school applicants often think is they are going to be future prosecutors or defense lawyers like those they see in “Law and Order”, “The Practice” or “The Wire.”<br />What many law school applicants need to realize is that “Law and Order” is a television show. It is not reality. If you do an hour long opening for a DUI, the Misdemeanor/Circuit judge is going to hold you in contempt and ask you to stop talking.<br /><br />In real life, the overwhelming majority of clients will be guilty and the overwhelming majority of clients will be plead out. Facts are facts. If you drive drunk and are pulled over and blow a .15, it doesn’t matter if your lawyer is Johnnie Cochran. You will still be found guilty.<br />I remember reading a great post on JD Underground on how the criminal justice system works.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-83080104317806514662018-03-18T15:05:20.022-06:002018-03-18T15:05:20.022-06:0010:06-my guess is he found a copy of Strunk and Wh...10:06-my guess is he found a copy of Strunk and White in his parents' basement during a commercial break. And there's a binge of The Practice this weekend!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39695540144138331732018-03-18T14:46:51.281-06:002018-03-18T14:46:51.281-06:00You were very lucky that your washout experience i...You were very lucky that your washout experience in law happened early in your working life when you were still young enough to complete the premed courses and get into medical school. You were also very fortunate that one or more medical schools were willing to accept you after the washout in law. <br /><br />A lot of lawyers of your clearly very smart caliber do get lawyer jobs early on and then wash out when they are too old to go the medical school or otherwise change careers to any type of work that would warrant the time and expense of a law degree. That is a horrible scenario to find ones self in, with skills that do not match the marketplace at age 40, 50 or older. There is a lot of forced early and very early retirement from the legal profession, and it is a result of the terrible oversupply.<br /><br />You are so fortunate, because medicine for now is very safe relative to other lines of work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-28390957854026472922018-03-18T14:35:58.666-06:002018-03-18T14:35:58.666-06:00There is not an understanding on this blog of the ...There is not an understanding on this blog of the increasingly poor wages and working conditions of lawyers who do have jobs on account of the increasing lawyer oversupply. More and more lawyer jobs are becoming temp jobs without health insurance or retirement benefits. It is almost impossible to get hired as a small firm by any sizable business. The business is going to want to run the small firm lawyer through a temp agency at $40 or $50 an hour max, as opposed to the several hundred dollar an hour fees of legitimate law firms. There is huge downtime between jobs and pay for lawyers is dropping relative to other lines of work. It is only going to get worse because the ABA vigorously supports and defends the massive and increasing lawyer oversupply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79304263919980075342018-03-18T10:45:06.479-06:002018-03-18T10:45:06.479-06:00The US economy is actually in very good shape now,...The US economy is actually in very good shape now, with stock and housing markets at or close to record highs and unemployment at record lows. The problem is that the legal profession generally is not sharing in these outsized gains. With the median income of the 619,000 establishment employed lawyers in the US being $118,000, you have only 320,000 of the more than 1.5 million lawyers of working age that we know earn more than $118,000. In big cities and their suburbs, public employees routinely earn as much or more in cash pay without even counting their pension or health benefits. That leaves a large number of law graduates with what are likely not very high incomes who are probably not economically comfortable, especially if they have high law school debt. Most lawyers are probably not sharing in the bounty of the economy today, while other workers clearly are doing well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79132298260527693642018-03-18T10:06:10.014-06:002018-03-18T10:06:10.014-06:00Good catch 7:12! Team AAMPLE troll is back. The tr...Good catch 7:12! Team AAMPLE troll is back. The troll has a lot more ellipses.........and now has the anecdotal story of the Tier 5 law grad.............routinely collecting seven figure verdicts. But the AAMPLE troll never tells us..........what they do for a living. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-46651427140156217662018-03-18T10:01:40.508-06:002018-03-18T10:01:40.508-06:00Your posts are simply lazy...the evidence is avail...Your posts are simply lazy...the evidence is available to all, if they bother to look. Check out the BLS stats, which show that 2x more JDs graduate, per year, than there are jobs requiring JDs(and since you're so into "empiracle" evidence, I'll let you compound that, year after year after year).<br />More evidence: the average debt taken on by law students.<br />More evidence: The ABA required "Employment Summary" for each school. A fellow poster has already supplied the stats for Drake-above-and they are pathetic.<br />Your stock advice "go to local law public law school" is both lazy and inane. Some examples, cost of attendance in state from school website<br />U of Baltimore: $51,034/annually<br />Ohio State: $52,920/annually<br />U of Colorado: $51,754/annually<br />UC-Irvine: $44,000<br />Again these are in-state and often only 9 month stats.<br /><br />You don't bother to offer anything but empty opinions b/c the facts don't support anything you declare. So please, back to the basement...you're missing the Boston Legal binge!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58752825697921065222018-03-18T09:51:18.025-06:002018-03-18T09:51:18.025-06:006:51 Most lawyers do not work in small towns. M...6:51 Most lawyers do not work in small towns. Most are in urban areas. With 619,000 establishment lawyer jobs that actually pay something, and another 160,000 solo jobs that pay on average in the same range as a BA and over 1.3 million licensed lawyers, there is a massive supply demand imbalance. There are too many lawyers by a long shot chasing too little work. <br /><br />The supply demand imbalance and continued overproduction of lawyers means that the surplus of lawyers is increasing each year. The oversupply of lawyers drops lawyer incomes and results in increasingly poor working conditions, including very high levels of lawyer unemployment and underemployment, especially for anyone calling themselves a solo and thereby not counted among the unemployed.<br /><br />Everybody you know is making a living as a small town lawyer, but the numbers bear out that most licensed lawyers are not going to be able to work as solo practitioners because there are simply too many lawyers and too little work to go around. <br /><br />It is dire to be trained to work in area where one cannot find full-time permanent work. With over 1.5 million law graduates of working age and fewer than 800,000 lawyer jobs and a very, very expensive degree, there are better alternatives today than law for most people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-5015248954586360102018-03-18T09:40:53.480-06:002018-03-18T09:40:53.480-06:00It's either a troll or a law school scammer. W...It's either a troll or a law school scammer. We've all seen these arguments before. They only stepped back a bit after the NYT article, Campos, and when the scam was just too obvious after years of scam bloggers posting up the facts.<br /><br />Nando is gone, this is the last blog remaining, and people claim the economy is getting better. Actually the recession ended nearly 10 years ago, in that time it HAS been better---for everyone outside of law.<br /><br />This idea that you either go to law school or clean toilets for a living is ridiculous. It's the same shame game academics have been using for decades. It's also a false choice. <br /><br />There are so many industries out there. And frankly, being a janitor at a school with a pension and benefits is better than what most lawyers are going to wind up with, especially at 50+ (but really before that, considering the debt loads and underemployment they have to start). <br /><br />Only a law school scammer would pretend that medicine, accounting, compliance, HVAC, engineering, postal services, trade services, supply chains, management, office work, healthcare, etc. industries do not exist. Only a scammer would try to convince you that you have to go to law school, and these other fields either are not an option or require some mystical education and training that is out of reach, but not law which is available to anyone at the low price of $200k and 3 years of torture. <br /><br />Frankly I'm not even certain most people should be going to undergrad today. But at least undergrad is capped, and the interest rates are favorable. The average undergrad finishes with $35k of debt at 3.5% or under interest rates. Not a great way to start, but way better than the $200k at 7.5% rates the average law grad has, as well as being 3 years older. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-16586376157995368802018-03-18T08:46:43.934-06:002018-03-18T08:46:43.934-06:00Hi troll. My point was pretty clear. The medical p...Hi troll. My point was pretty clear. The medical profession does not necessarily protect its members like a labor union. There is an artificial shortage of doctors because of the limited number of residency positions. Every school in the country is trying to cash in on the student loan gravy train. If there was no requirement to complete a residency to practice medicine, U.S. med schools would probably lower standards and oversaturate the market with grads like every other school. You don’t need to tell me that doctors are unethical. There are plenty of doctors that entered the profession for the money and don’t give a damn about patients. And there are plenty of Caribbean med schools run by doctors that don’t give a damn if their students match into residency. They just want the student loan cash.<br /><br />I don’t come on this board to brag. What do I have to brag about? I attended a toilet law school, borrowed $150k, graduated unemployed, and was rejected by big law, toilet law, government legal offices, prosecutor offices, and public defender offices. Most of my friends went into non-legal jobs. Some got MBAs and went into business. I went to med school. I post comments on the scam blogs in the hope that a prospective law student will read what I say and avoid law school. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-18145120045759722152018-03-18T06:00:10.825-06:002018-03-18T06:00:10.825-06:004:31 here. County's got open-floor dorms and ...4:31 here. County's got open-floor dorms and some single cells. As I say, better than some places, worse than others. The real safeguard is his age. He too was 70 and still working when he "borrowed" a $300K escrow he was holding. He's approaching 74 and that's not the kind of prime chicken they're looking for on the inside. Another Connnecticut lawyer of that vintage didn't steal but was convicted of tax fraud totalling, over a decade, way over a million. At least he's in Club Fed. I know another guy who is working at 77 because he owes the IRS $500K+ with the interest meter running. He'll work 'til he drops and then they'll take his house and the decent-sized piece of land it's on. These guys give off an aura of success while living a lie. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-66519106929619904422018-03-17T18:51:57.775-06:002018-03-17T18:51:57.775-06:00Empiracle evidence isn't there? Really..becau...Empiracle evidence isn't there? Really..because you say so? Your posts really come down to you're right, I'm wrong, and because I don't agree with you I must be a troll. If you are incapable of seeing other points of view, unlikely you have the ability to think like a lawyer...which might explain a lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-78741286601617769972018-03-17T15:06:55.866-06:002018-03-17T15:06:55.866-06:00Easy to say for those who have never had success i...Easy to say for those who have never had success in law. Still waiting for the alternatives that lead to a much better life. You all still don't get it. The economy sucks and will only get worse. If you want to have any chance of making decent money without the risks of being screwed by your employer..you need your own business. You want to clean toilets for a living, your choice. And no, where you went to law school is meaningless most places. You suffer from prestigeitis. The only issue is can you practice law competently. Incur 200 k in debt? Crazy..so go to the local public law school...part time if you have to, maybe even at night.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-26165093343660377382018-03-17T13:15:10.991-06:002018-03-17T13:15:10.991-06:003 Hots and a Cot. But does he have a cellmate? ;p)...3 Hots and a Cot. But does he have a cellmate? ;p)<br /><br />Btw, here's the link to one of those cases, anyway:<br /><br />https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/former-bankruptcy-attorney-admits-stealing-millions-clients<br /><br />70. Not retired. Started in law obviously years ago.<br /><br />One more comment: Of course certain Elite grads get thrown out of work as they age. BUT - not the scions of the Elite.<br /><br />Remember the movie "They Live!" When it comes time to chop, who do you think will get the Ax? The unconnected guy with the Elite degree or Daddy's connected, rich kid?<br /><br />Who owns / runs these firms, after all?<br /><br />I remember seeing a post years ago, somewhere, where the poster said that a lot of summer positions, at least half, are "reversed" for the children of the Elite. Somebody in HR fucked up and blurted the truth to them in an off-handed moment.<br /><br />So, no nepotism. Elite Kid of A goes to Friend B's firm. Elite B goes to Friend C's firm, etc.<br /><br />And it's the same when it comes to promotion time. If someone has to go, it'll be the unconnected kid, still with the Elite law degree but without the backing of family money and connections. Because.. somebody has to lose. <br /><br />The caste System perpetuates itself.<br /><br />The 3 people from my TTT who are in law and doing very well to this day were "elites" although they didn't attend an elite school by any means, didn't have the grades, etc.<br /><br />They were Somebody's that Somebody Sent.<br /><br />They will be able to work in law as long as they wish and will never be out of work.<br /><br />In other words, the non-Elite people are gambling in law for life. They need to work. They NEED jobs. Elite kids with family money and connections do not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com