tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4937649014015156553..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: A Personal StoryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger102125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50487663305190249352015-09-23T17:23:56.675-06:002015-09-23T17:23:56.675-06:00Hola! Is there a way to contact the author of this...Hola! Is there a way to contact the author of this blog privately? I love your blog and have some info about a certain law school that might be of interest to you...you've written about this school before.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-13251748367668438682015-09-22T15:27:34.125-06:002015-09-22T15:27:34.125-06:00You are apparently confused that 'debt' ca...You are apparently confused that 'debt' can be used to 'pay salaries.' No son, QE debt is money that gets de-created; aka monetary tightening. Ultimately deflationary. Nobody gets paid but the black hole that happens after the Federal Reserve zeros out some previously existent monetary base. 2010 on, it was all temporary money. Bad news for everyone! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-54026169073484603452015-09-22T08:57:33.389-06:002015-09-22T08:57:33.389-06:00And that's exactly what I should have done ins...And that's exactly what I should have done instead of going to law school Barry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67591191417482930362015-09-21T22:21:35.556-06:002015-09-21T22:21:35.556-06:00They're only connected to other academics, whi...They're only connected to other academics, which is entirely useless for students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-26917555391038727742015-09-21T08:36:56.870-06:002015-09-21T08:36:56.870-06:00The point is that law professors, who should be a ...The point is that law professors, who should be a well-connected elite, are telling newcomers to the field to 'network'. <br /><br /><br />-BarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21288255622737635862015-09-21T08:33:35.428-06:002015-09-21T08:33:35.428-06:00"The second point I would make is that if you..."The second point I would make is that if you think engineering is bad for whatever reason (bad boss, lack of career advancement, etc), hang in there. Things change. Nothing is constant at corporations. You might get a new mentor next year who really opens things up for you. There might be a job opening within the company, etc. Just keep your nose to the grindstone, try to do good work, be aware of how you are perceived. Things will work out if you give it a chance."<br /><br />Remember, becoming a lawyer will involve:<br /><br />1) Spending three years away from the work force, working harder.<br />2) Probably moving to do so.<br />3) Taking whatever job you can after graduation.<br />4) Probably moving to do so.<br />5) Incurring vast debt - when you take interest rates into account, basically buying a house, which you can not sell, and have a 50% chance of being able to live in.<br /><br /><br />If you're willing to go through that, you can likely improve your career without going to law school.<br /><br />-Barry<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-50023096624302402142015-09-21T08:27:55.056-06:002015-09-21T08:27:55.056-06:00Anon: "Illinois University is cheap as hell....Anon: "Illinois University is cheap as hell. She doesn't need a job (and won't get one). She can just work for herself. I don't know what kind of sales personality your sister in law has. If she used to work selling real estate, cars, insurance or anything else, she may make a killing as a lawyer. Most lawyers suck at sales."<br /><br />If she's good at sales, she could stick to that, not incur a massive amount of debt, and not have to try to sell herself in a field with which she has zero knowledge.<br /><br /><br />-BarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-58253610727081893142015-09-19T00:23:55.937-06:002015-09-19T00:23:55.937-06:00Congratulations! You spent three years incurring ...Congratulations! You spent three years incurring debt that will be used to pay the salaries of people who don't even want to be lawyers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-87132877443569018702015-09-17T20:57:49.563-06:002015-09-17T20:57:49.563-06:00And what networks??And what networks??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49658966660586952752015-09-17T20:57:28.265-06:002015-09-17T20:57:28.265-06:00Someone asked if professors could use their networ...Someone asked if professors could use their networks to help students find jobs..exactly what networks do you have in mind? Their network of other law professors?! That's absurd and insulting. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-57816789669648841852015-09-17T16:26:12.308-06:002015-09-17T16:26:12.308-06:00Hey Duped, I love you. You are insanely intelligen...Hey Duped, I love you. You are insanely intelligent; quad-T be damned!!! <br /><br />Fuck the debt. It's illegitimate, economic discrimination by one generation against another. The entirety of the younger generations are fucked by it, and eventually they're in charge by the natural progression of death of the Silent and Boomer generations. Certainly that happens in fewer than 25 years. <br /><br />Don't pay the illegitimate, fraudulently induced debt. "Forgiveness" is a non-contractual, bullshit carrot to keep the peasants from revolting like they should TODAY. <br /><br />Turns out, I'm newbie enough (have direct loans) to have a clause in my promissory note with the feds entitling me to a administrative process - and clear instructions for the same - to assert by debts are unenforceable because my law school violated state laws (it surely did) in inducing attendance, the taking of specific types of loans, etc. So, I ask DOE to provide the information, paperwork, process, and they tell me they don't have one yet...meanwhile SOL is running. Uh huh. Sounds like a breach to me...<br /><br />So, I won't pay the fuckers. And I'm disputing my law school debts on my credit report(s). Fuck 'em. Carry on. 25-years-hence forgiveness is bullshit. The schools, the feds, they never played by the rules; they were always in cahoots to defraud students. To the extent they made the rules, they purposely designed them to be vastly unfair, and even exempted themselves from disclosing such to students under TILA, etc. FUCK THEM! How much more do we really need to know? Oh yeah, unpaid, "volunteer" US Attorneys, DA's etc. FUCK THEM! <br /><br />So, nope, won't pay. Live today for tomorrow that US Bond Debt comes due. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62104486399864042522015-09-17T15:33:56.084-06:002015-09-17T15:33:56.084-06:00What jobs??
There are at least three times too ...What jobs?? <br /><br />There are at least three times too many law schools in relation to the legal job market, and the one-third of schools that have some claim to legitimacy have about double the students they should have. The current downturn is a nudge towards the right direction, but it is only a very small start. <br /><br />Keep the faith and keep up the good work, Scambloggers. We've only just begun.<br /><br />Bar Exam scores are dropping to their lowest point in years... and it makes you wonder about the quality of our future Bar, our future Courts, our future system of Justice....<br /><br />But if the scammers care so little about their students, it is a surprise that they don't give a shit about the future of this country? <br /><br />Scamblogging is patriotic -- it's concerned about preserving our system of justice as well as helping its citizens avoid stupefying debt. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-44071486849905123322015-09-17T13:47:39.733-06:002015-09-17T13:47:39.733-06:00And that is why I never took the patent bar. A le...And that is why I never took the patent bar. A legal recruiter made it pretty clear early in my career that the law school attended was more important than the engineering background, and firms would just wait for the right candidate. I concluded there was no great shortage of lawyers with engineering backgrounds even back during 2003-2004. I met a number of attorneys who passed the patent bar, but could not find a job in the field. We were all stuck working in document review. I know some went on to start their own solo firms. I eventually moved on and became a nurse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24976032477488762212015-09-17T10:40:40.519-06:002015-09-17T10:40:40.519-06:00I completely second that. I went from an 8 year ca...I completely second that. I went from an 8 year career as a software engineer to an unemployed patent attorney. Ended up trying shitlaw cases for about 3-4 years while I networked and tried to get hired by a patent firm. Eventually threw in the towel and went back to coding. Instantly doubled my salary and halved my hours. Giving up on law was the smartest thing I did in the past 10 years. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-66425869003594477302015-09-17T09:51:46.216-06:002015-09-17T09:51:46.216-06:00I wholeheartedly agree with this. I am in patent ...I wholeheartedly agree with this. I am in patent law and the field is completely glutted. I have classmates with EE backgrounds and they can't get jobs, and even those who do get jobs are making less than what they made as engineers (working longer hours and with less job security).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31326215667325547092015-09-16T21:59:16.783-06:002015-09-16T21:59:16.783-06:00Why can't professors use their networks to hel...Why can't professors use their networks to help students find jobs? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-88367400933556374172015-09-16T14:02:02.805-06:002015-09-16T14:02:02.805-06:00I assume that you ARE the one who was commenting a...<i>I assume that you ARE the one who was commenting at 10:24 am on a weekday</i><br /><br />Incorrect.<br /><br /><i>Do you work at all?</i><br /><br />Nah, man. Don't you know the trades? All stonemasons play video games all day and do their stonework using telekinetic powers.<br /><br /><i>I'm just reading between the lines here.</i><br /><br />You might want to work on that skill some more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-18102668680728038022015-09-16T12:55:09.828-06:002015-09-16T12:55:09.828-06:00I remember when I graduated law school, the biglaw...I remember when I graduated law school, the biglaw firms took-out full page adds in all the local trade publications in order to list the names of the new associates hired. Each of them had some sort of honor next to their name.<br /><br />All of this was to impress the clients. <br /><br />Basically, to get into big law, it's all about having the "buzz words" next to your name, and being young enough to slave away the best years of your life above a copy machine. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-25251753703456076912015-09-16T06:57:08.539-06:002015-09-16T06:57:08.539-06:00I would not recommend any STEM college major atten...I would not recommend any STEM college major attend law school to become a patent attorney. It's just way too risky.<br /><br />I know so many engineers who had careers or at least jobs before they entered law school and now have very little. So many people who work at the PTO, for search firms, and at ancillary places like Thomson/Lexis/Ocean Tomo/RPX. Or they work in compliance or in some other area totally unrelated to law. <br /><br />They are making nowhere near what a 5 year patent attorney makes at a medium to large law firm, yet this is the dream they were sold. They lost secure jobs with decent benefits and at least 3-5% yearly increases in pay.<br /><br />My first point is that at least 50% of the people who think they will end up as patent attorneys do nothing of the sort. They wind up in jobs they could simply have applied to fresh from undergrad, or after taking the patent bar. <br /><br />The dream of patent law is a canard, something ignorant undergraduate CSOs tell STEM majors who like to write. The field is supersaturated in all majors except EE, and even then you have to have the right combination of factors to make it work: youth, good grades (luck is involved here Lemmings, not just hard work!), a good school, willingness to relocate to hubs of patent activity, etc. <br /><br />And let's not forget - willingness and ability to work some pretty horrible hours. Outside counsel routinely sends me office action responses at 11:00PM at night. I often get drafts of appeal briefs on Saturday afternoons. I never worked anything close to those hours as an engineer. The guy that's sending me this stuff does not see his baby or his wife during this time. You think when he's lying on his deathbed he will have some regrets? You only get one chance at this life. <br />In the end, all you have are the relationships you make with those close to you, not some misplaced sense of duty to a senior partner or to a vague sense that you're improving America's position in the world with your genius ability to draft claims.<br /><br />The second point I would make is that if you think engineering is bad for whatever reason (bad boss, lack of career advancement, etc), hang in there. Things change. Nothing is constant at corporations. You might get a new mentor next year who really opens things up for you. There might be a job opening within the company, etc. Just keep your nose to the grindstone, try to do good work, be aware of how you are perceived. Things will work out if you give it a chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6218645955716953802015-09-16T06:31:12.465-06:002015-09-16T06:31:12.465-06:00I have been practicing as long as Tricia. My adver...I have been practicing as long as Tricia. My advertising budget in the past was 5k per month. At one time it paid off. No longer. Other than my website it is now zero. Over the years, massive advertisers have moved into my area, and others trying to match them. It is impossible for a solo to compete with their dollars. Advertising on my end resulted in a number of crap cases which took lots of time, required a larger staff and barely paid for itself. Not worth it. I now work for me instead of the yellow pages and Google optimizers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-36217799715018074312015-09-15T22:28:32.665-06:002015-09-15T22:28:32.665-06:00@5:42,
If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn...@5:42, <br /><br />If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't - DON'T. <br /><br />You claim that you "don't have a penny of debt." LOL, but do you have a penny of income? Since you are responding to my comment, I assume that you ARE the one who was commenting at 10:24 am on a weekday, right? Do you work at all? I'm just reading between the lines here.<br /><br />LOL, is THAT enough "reading comprehension" for you? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-66247628749522079712015-09-15T20:35:48.857-06:002015-09-15T20:35:48.857-06:00And kids with ready access to lots of capital don&...<i>And kids with ready access to lots of capital don't want to open a solo practice in Chattanooga anyway: they get jobs with Daddy's law firm in Manhattan or Mommy's corporate headquarters in Chicago.</i><br /><br />Even if you do have the kind of capital needed, opening a law firm would still be a lousy idea. Unlike other businesses (say, for example, mine), pretty much every dollar you spend trying to start a firm cannot be recouped unless you generate new business. You sure as hell can't resell a law degree, you can't get your rent back even if you get no business through your office, advertising is a loss unless it generates business, you can't get your CLE fees or bar dues back, etc. Me, on the other hand? The vast majority of capital is in equipment/inventory. If business flops, I can load it onto a trailer and sell it. Sure, I'd probably take a loss on selling it, but not a near 100% loss.<br /><br />Dropping tens of thousands of dollars almost exclusively on fees, rent, licenses, and other expenses? To get into a glutted industry? Are these people nuts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-85893928686245205192015-09-15T19:59:28.982-06:002015-09-15T19:59:28.982-06:00It's worse than that. Big law firms don't ...It's worse than that. Big law firms don't care much about intelligence; what they want is pedigree. Why? Because pedigree implies connections of the sort that lead to business. Thus the dumb little rich kids at the bottom of the class readily get jobs in big firms, while the smart hayseeds are passed over.<br /><br />Intelligence simply is not very important for the sort of work that an associate at a big firm does. A new "litigator" for a big law firm might spend five years without even taking a deposition, and ten or fifteen without seeing a courtroom. <br /><br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-36003936840159294692015-09-15T19:41:56.922-06:002015-09-15T19:41:56.922-06:00Like 5:03, I don't believe that any school qua...Like 5:03, I don't believe that any school qualifies. <br /><br />Ask a few toilets exactly what, concretely, they do to help students to get good jobs after graduation. "Umm, we, er, have a career-services office that checks résumés for spelling mistakes [even though the person in charge of the thing can't spell worth a tinker's damn herself] and organizes on-campus interviews [if any employers actually visit the toilet] and tells students to network."<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-47554133753885650492015-09-15T19:33:30.161-06:002015-09-15T19:33:30.161-06:00And kids with ready access to lots of capital don&...And kids with ready access to lots of capital don't want to open a solo practice in Chattanooga anyway: they get jobs with Daddy's law firm in Manhattan or Mommy's corporate headquarters in Chicago.<br />Old Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399124824529778710noreply@blogger.com