tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post4507662054174187291..comments2024-03-27T20:23:56.493-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Guest Post - A Typical StoryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-12740967605535906952015-05-13T08:28:50.101-06:002015-05-13T08:28:50.101-06:00"I agree. Anyone considering law school shoul..."I agree. Anyone considering law school should see that when you swing from one vine and grab on to the next, you are letting go of the first vine...and once you let it go you may not be able go back to it."<br /><br />More like letting go of the first vine, soaring through the air and trying to grab the second one.<br /><br />-BarryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-31989140667381550882013-06-26T07:19:07.993-06:002013-06-26T07:19:07.993-06:00Well JP I hope that's true. I got into several...Well JP I hope that's true. I got into several ivy leagues when I applied to college and could not get financial aid. My family was too rich to qualify for financial aid and too poor to pay what I thought was an outrageous tuition of $20k/year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-76493970090834624412013-06-24T22:15:34.829-06:002013-06-24T22:15:34.829-06:00I am a patent attorney. I know the original post ...I am a patent attorney. I know the original post is true and far too common. I got into the patent business before it was glutted. IT IS NOW GLUTTED, SUPERSATURATED, FILLED TO THE BRIM. I see resumes of well qualified candidates on my desk or in my email frequently. It is tragic that people with other skills like engineering, nursing, PhD scientists, MDs get taken by the law school scam and ruin what might have been a promising career outside law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6754318598911129312013-06-24T18:22:35.874-06:002013-06-24T18:22:35.874-06:00"Socialism never took root in America because..."Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” -John Steinbeck<br /><br />We're all just realizing that 2008 wasn't just a temporary blip on the radar. It's class warfare, folks. Generational warfare's been underway for a decade...and you're just now snapping. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-87118509992110112072013-06-24T17:55:13.601-06:002013-06-24T17:55:13.601-06:00You are fortunate. A lot of law grads, even from ...You are fortunate. A lot of law grads, even from the top law schools, are finding themselves completely unemployed because they have no fallback career. If you read about it, Weil Gotschal just had a huge layoff. This is typical. A lot of the lawyers who were laid off will never find long-term stable work as lawyers again. If you read the NY Times article, there is an estimate that biglaw is overstaffed by 10% or about 13,000 lawyers. This is on top of the normal annual up or out attrition of maybe 7,000 lawyers a year. Where do 20,000 highly credentialed lawyers go? Many into unemployment because there are not that many employment opportunities open to most of them. The up or out system lures unsuspecting people into law school, mostly without a prayer of getting hired by big law, and then puts a heavy number of the select few who are hired by big law into a permanent state of unemployment or underemployment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-37492948377442096782013-06-24T16:02:41.196-06:002013-06-24T16:02:41.196-06:00Just stating the obvious I guess. You gave up an ...Just stating the obvious I guess. You gave up an 80K Job. Yea I know you are kicking yourself now. But regardless of what your professors said, surely you knew that you were not guaranteed a job especially given the current demographis? It sounds like a PI case where the plaintiff gives up a reasonable settlement offer to go for a trial at home run and then is faced with a defense verdict. Does he blame his attorney or himself for taking the risk and losing? Yep, he will blame his attorney but he is the one at fault.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15075671920951820762013-06-24T15:53:37.254-06:002013-06-24T15:53:37.254-06:00Don't know whether college is a trap or not, b...Don't know whether college is a trap or not, but I'm sending both of my daughters to State Schools in Florida as the statistics are clear that college educated do much better over their lifetimes income wise, and a college degree has much more chance of opening up doors to a more rewarding career than simply a High School graduate. Even if they need go back and get a tech degree at community college, they will always feel better about themselves having a college education. I prepaid for their tuition and dorms when they were toddlers, so their tuition and most fees are paid for. It still costing, but not that much. What is important to avoid are all of the private or prestige schools out there charging as much as the most expensive law schools for tuition alone. Now that is a scam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15405089821604811452013-06-24T15:30:58.236-06:002013-06-24T15:30:58.236-06:00@OP
"What I meant in my original posting is ...@OP<br /><br />"What I meant in my original posting is that IF my children would really, really benefit from a college education, I would like to be able to have them go to any school they could get into."<br /><br />If you don't actually have assets and (other than your home) and don't make much money, many Ivy League schools significant offer tuition discounts.JPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-22295470155434689422013-06-24T12:16:38.173-06:002013-06-24T12:16:38.173-06:00Anon OP, I posted on this very subject awhile back...Anon OP, I posted on this very subject awhile back. Even if the "personal responsibility" types want to burn JD grads at the stake for their "poor choices", the follow-on effects are not good policy. Higher Ed should be priced such that it limit's the damage to the generation in question, not the ones following-on.dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-33269978042342748322013-06-24T12:09:00.544-06:002013-06-24T12:09:00.544-06:00Most of "my" Christian principles can be...Most of "my" Christian principles can be found in the Bible, if you're really interested.<br /><br />I don't see anything in it about worshipping the black booty that is attached to Obama. <br /><br />As for the draft, it was really right around that same era that most colleges became diploma mills. The professors opposed the war, too, so they drastically lowered the attrition rate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-15795171251223536502013-06-24T12:06:54.569-06:002013-06-24T12:06:54.569-06:00People like 4:08 kick others when they are down be...People like 4:08 kick others when they are down because it's such a good time (I mean, really, who doesn't LOVE to be self-righteous?), but when they themselves make a big mistake it's "justified" and "not their fault," somehow, someway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-5978008160955735602013-06-24T10:55:20.823-06:002013-06-24T10:55:20.823-06:00Thank you Anon at 8:29. I'm the original guest...Thank you Anon at 8:29. I'm the original guest poster.<br /><br />That's a great analogy, better than my own. (My own was that I closed the door on my previous career and no goddamm doors opened up in front of me. I got stuck in an empty corridor for 2 years.)<br /><br />So when you grab onto that next vine you're just left hanging on, slowly swinging back and forth in an ever-decreasing arc, as the other vines get farther and farther away. Eventually, you can't hold on anymore and plummet to your screaming death. Law school is a heavy vine that doesn't swing for any but a select few.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-62154476079640496362013-06-24T10:16:24.440-06:002013-06-24T10:16:24.440-06:00Anon @ 9:48,
You're exactly right and it's...Anon @ 9:48,<br />You're exactly right and it's one reason I tell people who want to be patent lawyers: "Just take the freaking patent bar and become an agent." Even with a prep course it's only $3500 total, and you do most of the things a patent attorney does. You only need to study about 150-200 hours to pass the patent bar. True, agents don't make as much as attorneys but it's a great way to find out if you'll enjoy the profession.<br /><br />Yes, the PTO has been hiring, and that's another good way to get into patent law. But they hire a lot of weirdos man! I'm just saying it's a place where a lot of weirdos wind up. I'm talking about you Anna! And you Pedro!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74335138179841978142013-06-24T10:11:57.159-06:002013-06-24T10:11:57.159-06:00Anon at 12:26,
Yes, you are right. I did have some...Anon at 12:26,<br />Yes, you are right. I did have some "special snowflake" syndrome. Until fall 1L grades came out, I thought I'd be at the top of my class. I didn't think I'd be average! <br />I thought law school would sharpen my mind and that these intangibles would propel me in any career I chose. I thought law was prestigious and I enjoyed the prospect of telling people I was a lawyer.<br />I think the central part of the scam blogging movement has to be to destroy the law school brand. I am fine with the German model. We all have talents in different areas and an efficient society steers people into those areas where they will be most productive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49032922077401734072013-06-24T10:05:45.475-06:002013-06-24T10:05:45.475-06:00I am the original poster.
Based on school-provided...I am the original poster.<br />Based on school-provided employment data and discussions with professors both before and during LS, I did not objectively see law school as a risk. Actually, I started at the night program to mitigate the risk that I would hate it. It turns out that I enjoyed it and based on assurances from law professors, I transferred to the day program.<br />I naively thought that the professors and administrators were honest. That was a mistake.<br /><br />So piss off. I've already spent several years blaming myself and I'm over it and over catty comments from butt-plugs like you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-14537893211641949162013-06-24T10:00:43.991-06:002013-06-24T10:00:43.991-06:00JeffM,
I am the original poster. Your point is tak...JeffM,<br />I am the original poster. Your point is taken about college. What I meant in my original posting is that IF my children would really, really benefit from a college education, I would like to be able to have them go to any school they could get into. On the other hand, if their talents lie more along the trades, I would fully support that as well. I think parents need to remain engaged with their kids to help them make good choices. I had zero help choosing a college when I was 17, but it turns out I made the right choice. I fully intend to help my kids make the right choices, i.e., preparing for a career that they have a passion for and have a talent for.<br /><br />My point is merely that my disastrous choice has foreclosed the possibility that I can help them financially with a potnetial college education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-24577149328208075072013-06-24T09:55:33.793-06:002013-06-24T09:55:33.793-06:00Anon at 6:15,
I have had zero legal jobs. It was e...Anon at 6:15,<br />I have had zero legal jobs. It was engineering at the same company for 10 years, then patent search firm part-time for 2 years, then to my current job. I am not saying a lot about my current job except that I work at a corporation and I'm doing fine now. But I got to where I am not because I went to law school, not because it conferred any advantage on me, but because I am making the most of my current job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80196898825047972402013-06-24T09:52:47.592-06:002013-06-24T09:52:47.592-06:00I'm the guest poster.
Yes, I think it's f...I'm the guest poster. <br />Yes, I think it's fair to say there is a glut of patent attorneys. Of course, some of it depends on a person's technical background. From what I can tell, people with EE and CS undergrad degrees have no trouble finding work. <br />Don't take my word for it though. Just look on linkedIn and see how many patent examiners have JDs. Look at all the patent search companies that hire patent attorneys. <br />None of this work requires a JD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-18393242540235773982013-06-24T08:32:06.948-06:002013-06-24T08:32:06.948-06:00I am pretty sure the hiring has slowed down signif...I am pretty sure the hiring has slowed down significantly. And the job can be beyond boring for some. but its a job, if you can get it.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-29027789256372058932013-06-24T06:39:53.107-06:002013-06-24T06:39:53.107-06:00Please tell us more about your "Christian pri...Please tell us more about your "Christian principles" 9:24. Truly fascinating stuff, and something that doesn't get sufficient air time here in the USA. <br />6:55 is typical of many in his generation in that he doesn't even realize how self-interested and selfish he sounds. You went to college to avoid the draft? Oh what a clever little Boomer you are, I can see where you'd think you have the legs to get up on a high horse about someone else's usurious student loans. I bet Jesus is giving you a get out of jail free card for the fact that some working class kid got sent into the abattoir while you fucked around at your "Christian" college.Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14215034227962231886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34200486002522424522013-06-24T06:32:31.981-06:002013-06-24T06:32:31.981-06:00I'm in full agreement that the "American ...I'm in full agreement that the "American Dream" is dead and that higher ed has become, to a large extent, a slaughterhouse of dreams for a lot of kids. But I'd be careful with this "government jobs are the last seats on the gravy train" angle. <br />In Chicago the Fire Dept. pension is something like 30% funded. These guys haven't been paying into SS their entire careers, in light of this "gold plated pension." I'm not sure how anyone thinks the taxpayers are going to be able to bail them out on this -- the broke taxpayers without a pot to piss in themselves. <br />It's a microcosm of what is happening statewide, with the public union pensions. If you luck into a job with a pension your first, second and third thoughts should be "how do I save out of my wages to protect myself in the future from this fake pension that's not going to exist in the manner my union leaders are promising me." It's horrible that a lot of public employees are going to be f***ed in retirement but the alternative is to squeeze an already tapped out tax base to pay full benefits for public employees. At this point all they're doing is trying to push the public pension disasters back a few years, I don't see anyone who honestly seems to think these benefits can continue to exist long term.Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14215034227962231886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6771093872085249312013-06-24T04:01:42.720-06:002013-06-24T04:01:42.720-06:00" My purpose here is not to admonish you for ..." My purpose here is not to admonish you for going to law school, but rather to point out that obviously there were non-financial factors (prestige, intrigue etc.) that drove you to go to law school. This is one of the problems that the scam blog movement seems to miss.".......<br /><br />Many of today's truth sayers seem not to get at this point but I, the great law land prophet and others like a JDU poster known as John Doeee and the grand daddy of them all, the great L4L aka Scotty Bullock CONSTANTLY harped on the inherent LACK of prestige of many in law who actually had jobs. We constantly broke down the myth of prestige in most shitty law jobs piece by piece.....and got stones cast at us for doing so! <br /><br />We detailed how the so called 'profession' actually works for most who had jobs and how unprestigous most law jobs are. We did it for years dating back to 2006 and 2007. Now I laugh when I see these angry youngins go on about the lawland scam as though they were the ones who first discovered it when it was folks like Scott Bullock and myself, the great lawland truthsayer and prophet, The Infamous John Bungsolaphagus who demystified the so called prestige of law years ago. God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-51667327277351624402013-06-23T22:48:20.887-06:002013-06-23T22:48:20.887-06:00Couple things:
1: Patent Law is interesting becau...Couple things:<br /><br />1: Patent Law is interesting because at least for patent prosecution you don't actually need a law degree to practice. If you have an engineering/science degree and pass the patent bar you can practice in from the the PTO. (conversely a Lawyer with a liberal arts degree without enough science could not).<br /><br />2. PTO has been hiring 500-1000 people each of the last few years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-74099962742943653012013-06-23T21:50:11.070-06:002013-06-23T21:50:11.070-06:00This pro law anti Campos and scam blogger bs sound...This pro law anti Campos and scam blogger bs sounds a lot like the legendary pro lawland fool Mr. Infinity aka Mr. Infinifool who will soon be amongst the throngs of lawland un or underemployeds. Ha ha ha ha! <br /><br />This is the lawland prophet known as the great John Bungsolaphagus. God bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-79002418014591898262013-06-23T21:06:51.909-06:002013-06-23T21:06:51.909-06:00@6:03,
Not in the big cities it hasn't. NYPD...@6:03,<br /><br />Not in the big cities it hasn't. NYPD, LAPD, NYC sanitation, NYC tradesmen, etc., are going to get theirs no matter what. Those fortunate and intelligent enough to understand that will live the last vestiges of the American Dream. College is a trap. Law school is an even bigger trap. If politicians don't have your back, you are done because the jobs are going overseas and they aint comin back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com