tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post34440528847493906..comments2024-03-28T10:56:31.720-06:00Comments on Outside the Law School Scam: Law school transparency at the NALP conference, FJM styleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-45057980103234750092013-06-11T23:14:54.150-06:002013-06-11T23:14:54.150-06:00^ It wouldn't matter. He would probably just u...^ It wouldn't matter. He would probably just use his knowledge of future #1 hits to become a 1950s rock star.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-2648297097751883532013-06-11T22:54:50.545-06:002013-06-11T22:54:50.545-06:00".... 1972 saw the founding of six ABA-accred...".... 1972 saw the founding of six ABA-accredited law schools, including Cooley."<br /><br />And we're still desparately waiting for the Morning After pill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-67436112993552471542013-06-11T22:43:18.912-06:002013-06-11T22:43:18.912-06:00It's pathetic to see ridiculous verbiage used ...It's pathetic to see ridiculous verbiage used to try to dress-up a bad situation: e.g., "Part-time lawyer jobs".... "JD Advantage jobs."<br /><br />But please, people, let's try to show some sympathy for these besieged law school administrators. There are obviously many gray areas and judgment calls when it comes to responding to employment data inquiries. These poor souls must attempt to answer the imposibly difficult question: <br /><br />What is the date of 'Graduation' for purposes of the reporting category, “Employed upon Graduation"?<br /><br />Could it be the date of the Graduation Ceremony? <br /><br />But if so, what happens if a graduate decides not to walk, but instead travels to Australia for rest and relaxation, thus being one day ahead when the graduation ceremony is conducted back in the States? What if he really tries to get back, but his plane is delayed, and as a result, he's crossing over the International Date Line precisely at the time of the graduation ceremony? Do we use the beginning of the ceremony or the closing remarks as the governing time?<br /><br />Also, what happens when Marty McFly is supposed to graduate, but just before the graduation ceremony, he gets into a time machine made from a Delorean and travels back to 1955 because the future of Law is so dismal? Is Marty's graduation date calculated as being 2013, or 1955? And what happens if Marty is unable to return to the present and remains stuck in 1955? Should he attempt to summer at Cravath in order to mitigate his loss, and if he's hired on, will his employment be attributed to the 2013 statistics, or is his law school allowed to retroactively amend its 1955 employment stats? What of the disparity between an 2013 OCI and a 1955 clerkship? And if Cravath's 1955 conduct includes unacceptable sexist, racism and/or homophobic discrimination, will this serve to invalidate any use of the clerking experience should he return to 2013? <br /><br />Or, do we use the date of the Registrar's certification? But does that mean the day the registrar signs the certification, or the date that the signed list is made public? What if the Registrar signs the list, but is then abducted by Marty McFly, and taken back to 1955 in the Delorean, before said list can be published? What then happens when Doc is given the list in good old 1955 and he 'publishes' it by placing it on the wall of the local diner? Is the date 1955, or is it deemed to be 2013? <br /><br />What if Bif actually gets it on with Marty's Mom in the car at the dance, but Marty is too busy clerking at Cravath so he can't intervene, and Marty's mom is ravished by Bif? Will the offspring of the union be considered a Legacy for purposes of the law school's admissions program? Will the illegitimacy be judged using 1955 mores, or those of 2013? What year will his student loans come due should he become a legacy? <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-73998860971532832412013-06-11T21:19:51.500-06:002013-06-11T21:19:51.500-06:00@3:00,
Is the scamblog "movement" cons...@3:00, <br /><br />Is the scamblog "movement" conservative? <br /><br />Well, one of their main goals is to force the taxpayers to pay off their loans for them ...<br /><br />That doesn't sound very "conservative" to me. <br /><br />The dirty little secret here is that the law school professors and the overwhelmed student debtors BOTH favor "privatizing profits and socializing losses." <br /><br />The only difference is that the law school professors won the game and the JD debtors lost it. <br /><br />Morally speaking, they are equally repellent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39867716935571439812013-06-11T20:21:52.659-06:002013-06-11T20:21:52.659-06:00Agreed. Student debt as a general issue is going ...Agreed. Student debt as a general issue is going to be dealt with regardless of whether it is motivated by small government conservatism ("get the government out of student loans") or a revitalized liberalism that sees higher education as another part of our lives overtaken by corporate fat-cats (or scam deans). Frankly, I don't care about which argument wins the day.<br /><br />By the way, another solid contribution by one of our new writers!Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-51150711902708239852013-06-11T20:11:00.241-06:002013-06-11T20:11:00.241-06:00Agreed. While not the movement is not explicitly ...Agreed. While not the movement is not explicitly conservative, the targets generally 1.) are liberals and 2.) use liberalism to justify their scamming by saying they need tenure and barely existent workloads to "fight for justice." From their "home offices" of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-38553124608946219782013-06-11T19:23:19.713-06:002013-06-11T19:23:19.713-06:00A lot of the targets can be classified as "li...A lot of the targets can be classified as "limousine liberals", but I don't think the movement self-identifies along political lines.MAhttp://www.thelawschoolscam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-59134551861947823802013-06-11T19:20:38.571-06:002013-06-11T19:20:38.571-06:00Nando, thank you. I am honored to receive such hig...Nando, thank you. I am honored to receive such high praise from an innovator such as yourself.MAhttp://www.thelawschoolscam.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-1439340310040662522013-06-11T16:00:04.218-06:002013-06-11T16:00:04.218-06:00Politically speaking, is the scamblog movement gen...Politically speaking, is the scamblog movement generally considered conservative?<br /><br />In light of Tamanaha bashing his liberal academic peers as so many hypocrites, and in light of Campos as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-41161643055316429432013-06-11T15:41:02.204-06:002013-06-11T15:41:02.204-06:00The structuralist in me believes that jobs within ...The structuralist in me believes that jobs within 9 months is a pregnancy metaphor. If you land a job, they gave birth to you and love you and send you cards. Otherwise, it's the awkward trip to the clinic that everyone pretends never happened.<br /><br />Curiously, Roe v. Wade hit about the same time the legal education sector gave its last gasp of honestly fulfilling its mission statement. 1972 saw the founding of six ABA-accredited law schools, including Cooley.<br /><br />Coincidence? I think not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-22043054461420165892013-06-11T14:19:09.350-06:002013-06-11T14:19:09.350-06:00I hate the lying law schools do, but if I were dec...I hate the lying law schools do, but if I were deciding which school to attend, I'd ask:<br /><br />What % have jobs at the time of graduation?<br />What % have jobs within 30 days of bar passage results?<br /><br />Those two data points would tell me a lot more than just the one data point of "jobs within 9 months."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-82627432687955929052013-06-11T13:56:00.547-06:002013-06-11T13:56:00.547-06:00^ Make a documentary film about it.^ Make a documentary film about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-14472752942544916592013-06-11T12:36:13.218-06:002013-06-11T12:36:13.218-06:00What a load of BS these cockroaches are peddling. ...What a load of BS these cockroaches are peddling. I won't rest until these Toilets are shut down.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-34038479196650675552013-06-11T12:07:26.406-06:002013-06-11T12:07:26.406-06:00Summary -- don't go to law school.
Analysis -...Summary -- don't go to law school.<br /><br />Analysis -- Law school isn't worth the squeeze because of variety of issues (unemployment, high debt, but mostly employment outcomes).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-51140309335657157782013-06-11T12:05:38.957-06:002013-06-11T12:05:38.957-06:00Absolutely. These statements just go to show how ...Absolutely. These statements just go to show how many ScamDeans and LawProfs are completely out of touch with reality. Classism through and through.<br /><br />I guess if you have lived a pampered existence heretofor(and, honestly, how many academics come from pure, abject poverty? Precious few, I'll wager), then you wouldn't know any better. Not that building ivory walls to keep out the real world is any excuse. <br /><br />For those for whom money is no object, then a part-time gig might be nice outcome. For those who are actually looking to work for a living, it matters a great deal. I know many attorneys who work long hours to specifically pay for a nanny or elder care - that is part of the "point." WTF, ScamDeans?dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-6047382297343958452013-06-11T12:04:44.448-06:002013-06-11T12:04:44.448-06:00Excellent comments above. As others have mentione...Excellent comments above. As others have mentioned, the law school swine are simply playing dumb. In reality, they simply do not give a damn about the students and recent grads. The CDO staffs, as well as the "professors" and deans, are FULLY AWARE of the glutted lawyer job market. They KNOW that many of their graduates are not finding attorney jobs. Which is why they do not want to furnish true data. Doing so would likely result in even larger drops in enrollment.<br /><br />Young mothers and fathers with extensive educations want full-time work, unless they are trust fund babies or married to a wealthy person. To those select few, the JD is simply an ego boost, and a way to pass the time. The academic credential may even impress the occasional dimwit. <br /><br />Again, who in their right mind would willingly incur $110K-$190K in non-dischargeable debt, with the intent to work part time - so that they can "balance" their home and "professional" lives?!?! MA, you decimated the pigs' weak arguments.Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-47254034501423484032013-06-11T12:04:34.941-06:002013-06-11T12:04:34.941-06:00Excellent comments above. As others have mentione...Excellent comments above. As others have mentioned, the law school swine are simply playing dumb. In reality, they simply do not give a damn about the students and recent grads. The CDO staffs, as well as the "professors" and deans, are FULLY AWARE of the glutted lawyer job market. They KNOW that many of their graduates are not finding attorney jobs. Which is why they do not want to furnish true data. Doing so would likely result in even larger drops in enrollment.<br /><br />Young mothers and fathers with extensive educations want full-time work, unless they are trust fund babies or married to a wealthy person. To those select few, the JD is simply an ego boost, and a way to pass the time. The academic credential may even impress the occasional dimwit. <br /><br />Again, who in their right mind would willingly incur $110K-$190K in non-dischargeable debt, with the intent to work part time - so that they can "balance" their home and "professional" lives?!?! MA, you decimated the pigs' weak arguments.Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-22093993724918093072013-06-11T11:42:51.581-06:002013-06-11T11:42:51.581-06:00WHERE IS KEN TREMENDOUS?!?!?! Skip Schumaker is t...WHERE IS KEN TREMENDOUS?!?!?! Skip Schumaker is the greatest infielder of all time, at least in terms of Hustle Above Replacement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-37486921117763882262013-06-11T11:40:36.549-06:002013-06-11T11:40:36.549-06:00There are a few journalistic-types of investigatio...There are a few journalistic-types of investigations that I have wanted to work on as long-term side projects. I even have a few ideas of how to go about some of them. But I need help, as it is too time consuming for one person. If you are serious about a project like checking up on a sample T1 class two years post-grad, we should talk.<br /><br />I think it would interest an even wider readership outside of just this blog.Adam Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458070600725040309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-21929406710719172192013-06-11T11:09:48.307-06:002013-06-11T11:09:48.307-06:00In pretty much every state (including mine) the st...In pretty much every state (including mine) the state bar web site has a search function so you can search by school, year of graduation, etc as well as by name. It is interesting to look at the entries for the people I went to law school with. (Quite a few are not listed, so they either moved or dropped out of the law entirely.) Some are with firms, mostly small or medium sized. About a third are listed as being active/in good standing, but their address is a P.O. box or a residence, which would suggest they too have dropped out. And some are solos, with varying degrees of success.<br /><br />Anyone considering going to law school should do this type of search on the 2-3 most recent graduating classes of any school they are considering attending, and get an idea for how many graduates of said school actually get the type of jobs the applicant would want.BamBamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80371507191818114382013-06-11T10:32:37.777-06:002013-06-11T10:32:37.777-06:00Number 3: The "JD-Advantage" Unicorn.
...Number 3: The "JD-Advantage" Unicorn.<br /><br />Yep, I'm one of the few that thought a JD was a valuable asset in the marketplace...until it wasn't. Funny, I discovered that on the back-end of lol skool, after all the blood, sweat, and tears, and there was certainly no "full disclosure" on the front-end.<br /><br />dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-35382325103605417472013-06-11T10:27:31.381-06:002013-06-11T10:27:31.381-06:00"There is no incentive for deans to reform ou..."There is no incentive for deans to reform our current system, which handsomely rewards immoral conduct. Panels like this one at NALP are only trying to figure out how to stay one step ahead of the mob and the pitchforks. It’s time for someone to step in and save our youth."<br /><br />Absolutely right. The mechanisms of the Legal-Education Industrial Complex will not stop grinding students up until there are no more students to grind. <br /><br />Everyone in the system . . . everyone, all the way down to the underpaid, non-tenure-track, second-class legal-writing instructors . . . everyone is dependent upon the perpetuation of an unsustainable system. <br /><br />That law schools don't actually teach the law in any useful form is, to them, irrelevant. <br /><br />That firms take advantage of this by doing what they can and must--hiring only the ones who show, via the proxies of school and grades--that they're worth training, well, that's just how it is.<br /><br />That this entire Complex relies on the ingrained assumptions of smart, credulous, badly misled students, well, that's just how it's been.<br /><br />Thane.Thane Messingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-39784996608776723962013-06-11T10:17:23.237-06:002013-06-11T10:17:23.237-06:00This article underscores a central problem with la...This article underscores a central problem with law school propaganda: they use exceptions to prove a rule. <br /><br />Sure, some students have kids and want part-time jobs to be a lawyer-mommy. Some want the JD to enhance their role as a consultant or tax accountant. Some want to go to graduate school or for the sake of learning.<br /><br />The schools always couch these statements in ambiguity, knowing full well that these exceptions do not apply to 90-95% of their students.<br /><br />In a typical law school, almost everyone is at or below their early 30s, almost everyone wants traditional JD-required work, and even the ones with kids and dying parents want to work full-time so they can get benefits and attempt repaying loans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-49722152275290291992013-06-11T10:16:31.193-06:002013-06-11T10:16:31.193-06:00These are really weak arguments, especially the la...<br />These are really weak arguments, especially the later ones. Their basic reasoning is, "Filling out these forms is not just as easy as falling off a log." <br /><br />What college-educated person is stumped by this meager list of requirements? Don't they have phones or emails at the NALP? they probably could ask US News for clarification, if such a strategy occurred to them.<br /><br />Or, if they think these issues are real, why don't they do research? They could ask their students whether they plan to work full time or part time after graduation, and if 50% said "part time" (ha), maybe they'd have some ground to stand on.<br /><br />Actually, the arguments are just distractions. They are just "playing dumb" so they don't have to admit the reality of their situation. I guess it's better to appear dumb than greedy to the general public.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3660083024919144793.post-80639236878011273002013-06-11T10:15:11.003-06:002013-06-11T10:15:11.003-06:00Dybbuk: "Professional jobs"? Is that the...Dybbuk: "Professional jobs"? Is that the new line they're coming up with? "Come to Law School, and you'll become a Professional!"Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09947132266735151755noreply@blogger.com